Should the Lee Circle statue be removed? (New Orleans, Jefferson: house, high school)

[smarino]

Only a Yankee would say Lee was a traitor. In that case, I guess all the Southerners who fought in the War were traitors? Don't they teach history out where you live? When we left the Union, that dissolved the Constitution for the South and we became an independent nation. But you can't argue w/ a Yankee, nor the brain washing of a Union educational system.

I keep thinking back to the T shirt I once saw that said "Happiness is a northbound Yankee". That sums up my feelings on this subject. This is all political grandstanding. If anyone knew anything about New Orleans and it's politicians.....

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by smarino

Only a Yankee would say Lee was a traitor. In that case, I guess all the Southerners who fought in the War were traitors? Don't they teach history out where you live? When we left the Union, that dissolved the Constitution for the South and we became an independent nation. But you can't argue w/ a Yankee, nor the brain washing of a Union educational system.

I keep thinking back to the T shirt I once saw that said "Happiness is a northbound Yankee". That sums up my feelings on this subject. This is all political grandstanding. If anyone knew anything about New Orleans and it's politicians.....

Prove that only a Yankee would call Lee a traitor.

Leaving the Union might have made the Constitution not apply, but Lee, who swore an oath to it, was still beholden to it. The South committed an act of war by attacking Ft Sumter. Lee became a traitor when he sided with an enemy combatant.

Your anger at northerners does not refute anything? It just shows petulance.

And if northerners are so "brainwashed", why do northern states rank higher in education than the South?

[Luke9686]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Prove that only a Yankee would call Lee a traitor.

Leaving the Union might have made the Constitution not apply, but Lee, who swore an oath to it, was still beholden to it. The South committed an act of war by attacking Ft Sumter. Lee became a traitor when he sided with an enemy combatant.

Your anger at northerners does not refute anything? It just shows petulance.

And if northerners are so "brainwashed", why do northern states rank higher in education than the South?

This same argument could be made against every single one of the founders...

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by smarino

Only a Yankee would say Lee was a traitor. In that case, I guess all the Southerners who fought in the War were traitors? Don't they teach history out where you live? When we left the Union, that dissolved the Constitution for the South and we became an independent nation. But you can't argue w/ a Yankee, nor the brain washing of a Union educational system.

I keep thinking back to the T shirt I once saw that said "Happiness is a northbound Yankee". That sums up my feelings on this subject. This is all political grandstanding. If anyone knew anything about New Orleans and it's politicians.....

The CSA was never recognized by any other nation, including the US. So, the CSA was never really a nation in that sense, which is pretty important to actually function in the world.

And I'm from here.

Originally Posted by Luke9686

This same argument could be made against every single one of the founders...

Except, they won....

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

The CSA was never recognized by any other nation, including the US. So, the CSA was never really a nation in that sense, which is pretty important to actually function in the world.

And I'm from here.


Except, they won....

When we say Lee is a traitor, he is a traitor to THIS nation, the USA. The founding fathers are part of this nation, and are not part of England anymore. I don't expect the Queen to pay tribute to America's founding fathers, and I find it repugnant to pay tribute to the Confederates. The CSA is dead. Actually, as you say, it was never recognized as a nation. It was a territory in rebellion. As long as that status exists, anyonefighting for it could be seen as a traitor. Actually, Lee is the main traitor. He swore an oath to protect the USA and its Constitution. According to the Constitution, if you side with an enemy combatant, that is treason. According to the USA Constitution, Lee committed treason.

[Luke9686]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

When we say Lee is a traitor, he is a traitor to THIS nation, the USA. The founding fathers are part of this nation, and are not part of England anymore. I don't expect the Queen to pay tribute to America's founding fathers, and I find it repugnant to pay tribute to the Confederates. The CSA is dead. Actually, as you say, it was never recognized as a nation. It was a territory in rebellion. As long as that status exists, anyonefighting for it could be seen as a traitor. Actually, Lee is the main traitor. He swore an oath to protect the USA and its Constitution. According to the Constitution, if you side with an enemy combatant, that is treason. According to the USA Constitution, Lee committed treason.

Collectivism at its finest...

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Luke9686

Collectivism at its finest...

Refute what I said. Otherwise, insulting this by calling it, "collectivism " proves:

1) Childishness on your part.
2) An inability to present a counter-argument.
3) Not being able to disagree with dignity.

[Southern man]

Backlash Halts Removal of Confederate Symbols in New Orleans - ABC News

Sounds like some of the contractors hired to remove Gen Lee changed their mind.

[green_mariner]

Should it be removed? Yes. No one is saying you can't where anything with the Confederate flag or that you can't fly it. However, a statue of Robert E. Lee does not have any place in today's New Orleans, or the USA. If he had stayed on the side of the USA, then yes, it would deserve some honor. However, Lee was a traitor. He was sworn to protect the USA and its Constitution. This is when he graduated from West Point. He switched sides and sided with an enemy combatant. According to the very Constitution that he was sworn to protect, he committed treason.

Just because he wasn't punished for his actions, it does not make it any less treasonous. It is what it is. One is entitled one's own opinions. However, facts or facts. And the facts point to treason.

My primary reason for wanting the Lee statue removed is this. I have no respect for anything related to the Confederacy. In reading the Articles of Secession, that proves the desire to keep slavery was a major reason for secession. Being someone who has slave ancestors, I have no respect for the Confederate cause. That is like me supporting a cause that would ultimately be of direct harm to me.

[Hiruko]

Originally Posted by smarino

Only a Yankee would say Lee was a traitor. In that case, I guess all the Southerners who fought in the War were traitors? Don't they teach history out where you live? When we left the Union, that dissolved the Constitution for the South and we became an independent nation. But you can't argue w/ a Yankee, nor the brain washing of a Union educational system.

I keep thinking back to the T shirt I once saw that said "Happiness is a northbound Yankee". That sums up my feelings on this subject. This is all political grandstanding. If anyone knew anything about New Orleans and it's politicians.....

I agree with you.

This country was founded by individuals who could be seen as "traitors." My ancestors fought in the American Revolution and for the Confederate States in the American Civil War. I think our history is our history, and should be allowed to speak for itself. Whether or not you believe that an individual or individuals deserve commemoration should be irrelevant. When these monuments were placed, most Americans thought that they deserved commemoration. I am happy that these historic artifacts encourage discussion of history. However, I do not see how tearing them down serves any purpose whatsoever. To say that they belittle people is ridiculous. They are often intermixed with modern monuments, and quite commonly within close proximity of memorials to African-American heroes.

To those who compare Confederate relics to Nazi relics, and who point to "De-Nazification" following World War II as the ideal, you clearly have not traveled about Europe much. Some of Europe's most visited tourist attractions and museums are Nazi concentration camps like, Dachau and Auschwitz. Many remnants of Nazi architecture exist throughout Europe, including the Atlantic Wall. Numerous German buildings and infrastructure were built during the Nazi era and have been allowed to remain or to be renovated for continued use. I must add, as an American of Jewish ancestry and deep Southern heritage, I feel that Nazi Germany and the Confederate States are simply not comparable.