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Real estate has become much more affordable in NJ over the last 4-5 years and I think prices will continue to decline. I also think that the 2% property tax cap may actually be a real, sustainable solution. Last year they rose only 1.4% on average statewide.
This recession was needed in order to snap people back to reality. High property taxes are easy to swallow when you are living in a house that is rapidly rising in value. I don't think we will see that kind of run up again anytime soon.
Im very surprised by the enormous response this topic has got, and the intelligent discussions it has sparked. Thank you everyone for the input.
I agree, I was expecting more 'it must be you' type posts, or posts like the one by Jerseygirl. We need more honest and considerate discussions like this on the forum.
Real estate has become much more affordable in NJ over the last 4-5 years and I think prices will continue to decline. I also think that the 2% property tax cap may actually be a real, sustainable solution. Last year they rose only 1.4% on average statewide.
This recession was needed in order to snap people back to reality. High property taxes are easy to swallow when you are living in a house that is rapidly rising in value. I don't think we will see that kind of run up again anytime soon.
Not really. Property taxes come out your own pocket no matter what. Housing prices go up and down and if you don't cash in at the right time, you lose. Then you are still stuck with the asinine property taxes regardless of transaction.
And where do you figure housing prices have become more affordable over the last 4-5 years? If anything, the real estate in NJ was largely not affected by the most recent recession -- unlike the sunbelt which is finally coming back.
Let me start by saying i was born and raised in Essex County, NJ...so i am NOT a transplant experiencing culture shock. I am 30 years old, recently married, and have lived here all my life. My wife and I are putting all of our resources into trying to leave the state within the next 2-5 years. We hate to be far away from family and friends but we are both so burnt out by life in the north jersey metro area.
So many people here are astonishingly rude, selfish, and ignorant. It is a rarity for anyone to hold a door for you, or let you get into traffic. If you do these things for other people, only expect about a 30-50% chance at best of getting a "thank you" or a courtesy wave back. Apparently the signs that say "yield for pedestrians" in parking lots are a foreign language to most people here.
Everyone is in a rush for nothing. Im no slow poke on the roads but being tailgated is still a frequent occurrence. The nanosecond that the traffic light turns green, some a-hole a few cars back has to lean on his horn. Reckless driving and road rage is endemic. If something holds up the line at a supermarket or the drugstore, people are ready to lose their minds. That fact that everything and everywhere is so crowded does help either.
I realize that there are a-holes in every part of the country, but the rate of them here is vastly higher.
The cost of living here is absolutely outrageous. Property taxes are obscene. Highest car insurance rates in the country. For alot of people (myself included) it is an epic struggle to maintain a middle class existence here.
To be fair, not all parts of NJ are this bad. Its mainly the northeast region of the state. And don't get me wrong, there are some pro's to living here. Ill admit we do have the best schools, doctors, hospitals, etc. and it is a very culturally rich area. But the negatives far outweigh the positives. Id gladly give up my access to NJ Diners, good Italian food, real pizza, and Taylor Ham to be able to have a comfortable middle class existence in another state, among civilized people with manners and common courtesy. I realize that i might make less money in another state for the same job, but what good is having more money when you are pissing it all away just to be able to live here. And some things are more important than money, such as peace of mind and not being constantly stressed out.
Judging by the fact that NJ has the highest ratio if any state in the U.S. of people fleeing the state compared to people moving in, its apparent I'm not the only one who feels this way. The States People Are Fleeing In 2013 - Forbes
With a little luck, within a few years my wife and i will be joining the exodus of middle class people fleeing the state.
It's not for everyone....no place is. So there's always going to be positives and negatives. I hate the traffic in NJ and the way a lot of people drive agressively on the road, as you mentioned. But, depending on what town you live in, I'm not sure I get the "people don't hold doors" type complaints. It certainly depends on where you're going. For instance, the Shoprite in West Orange is one of my least favorite places to be in. The aisles are narrow, people hover and block, with no idea of the people around them, and it's just not a pleasant place to be. But if i go to Wholefoods in West Orange or Trader Joe's in millburn or florham park, it's generally a much less stressful experience. the AMC in west orange was a great experience, while the AMC in east hanover was frustrating as heck. I see nice people every day, and i see nasty people often.
as for costs...yeah, costs are high, and so are salaries. my auto insurance is less expensive than my sister and BIL's is in the philly area (and they are both older than us), and our gas tax is lower than pretty much any other state, and we get a certain amount of stuff for that higher cost (like the great schools you mentioned).
to each their own, but i think the positives outweigh the negatives. as for the list of people fleeing...NJ also has a lot of people hitting retirement age who are ending their professional lives in NYC or NE NJ and retiring to "less expensive" states. Yet, even with all those people fleeing, was there any year that NJ's population decreased? I don't believe so....
Raised in NJ, transferred to PA and now living further west. There will always be things we love about NJ, but there are more things (like the OP) that we don't miss; lines, aggressiveness, the attitude of entitlement "me" centered people, the high cost of living and taxes. There are equally good school districts in PA, Ohio and other states, you just have to search them out. Parts of PA have reduced cost of living, metro Philly is not going to be much different that northern NJ in terms of housing,taxes and congestion. A good part of Maryland is a sprawl of Washington DC, with the same issues you are looking to escape.
If I were to do it over again, I would have given little thought of Delaware a good looking over. Taxes (no sales tax) are reasonable, housing is fairly priced, if you don't have to be on the shore line. Also parts of Maryland (below Annapolis and inland) and further north east towards Delaware are also worth looking at. You still have all of the big city resources of Baltimore/Philadelphia if necessary, yet the quiet lifestyle you are seeking. Good Luck!
my BIL lives in Wilmington. It's not bad, taxes are low, but the schools are atrocious. You go much further south and it's like you've gone 10 hours south. but it's nice that he's close to philly, and he's saving money on property taxes now, but that will be spent on private school later. and as for no sales tax, he's run the numbers, and he's getting hit with taxes in other areas that make up for the supposed tax savings (he lived in Philly before he moved).
but yeah, there are parts of DE that are nice options. he could live in better school districts, but then his property taxes would be substantially higher.
Huh? university of Miami (Fl) is a top 50 school! Whats wrong with Miami? Who wouldnt want to spend there undergrad in southbeach?
i had to check...you're right. they're #47. i was very surprised. not sure how long they've been there, but the joke when i was applying for college was that only athletes apply to places like Miami.
but as for who wouldn't want to spend their undgrad in southbeach....you're right on that too. 81% graduate within 6 years...that sounds pretty pathetic to me.
Not really. Property taxes come out your own pocket no matter what. Housing prices go up and down and if you don't cash in at the right time, you lose. Then you are still stuck with the asinine property taxes regardless of transaction.
And where do you figure housing prices have become more affordable over the last 4-5 years? If anything, the real estate in NJ was largely not affected by the most recent recession -- unlike the sunbelt which is finally coming back.
The first link breaks it down by individual municipality, second link is county by county. "Decline of nearly 17 percent since 2008 has seen statewide median value drop from $377,000 to $312,000"
You are young and have many opportunities ahead of you. Perhaps consider moving a bit south or to a neighboring state. I would hate to be away from family if you have deep roots in NJ. With that said, our family just moved to Texas over the summer for many of the same reasons you stated in your post. We didn't have family in NJ, just some good friends who I miss terribly. I admit that I'm homesick for NJ and at times have asked ourselves if we made the right move. On the other hand, I was so unhappy in NJ and really wanted to get out of there. Life is complicated and so are emotions. I found myself pining for NJ the other day quite a bit.
NJ, in our eyes, had quite a few draw backs for us. Long commute for hubby, very high taxes, high cost of living, a rush-rush mentality. I can relate to road rage and people being so impatient. More so, we wanted to raise our kids in a different environment. I think that overall though, I'm just not a NE person and have been stuck in the NE for many, many years (military related). It was time for a change and we leapt.
After moving to Texas though, there is the initial honeymoon then you really start to see reality. The cost of living is cheaper here. People seem friendlier. Folks are less aggressive on the roads however I see my share of jerks. You just don't get honked at as often. We also have tons of accidents here, many drinking related. Where we live in Plano reminds me of Route 9 sometimes. Very, very heavy traffic---maybe on par with NJ however things are more spread out and roads seems to handle traffic flow better. Schools are very good and on par with NJ. Super competitive with many Asians coming here. There seem to be a plethora of hospitals and doctors here although Texas has a high rate of uninsured people.
What I'm trying to say is that no place is perfect you have to looks at the pros and cons of each area. If I had family in NJ, we perhaps wouldn't have moved. I do miss my pizza, delis, diners, a Dunkin' Donuts store on every corner. I also miss our bigger backyard lot with more foliage than what we have here in Texas. The housing is cheaper but the housing market is brutal. Everyone wants to buy a house in our area so it is a seller market. On the other hand, I think that we will fit in here nicely. My daughter has already made friends which she sadly didn't have in NJ due to her behavioral issues. We just need to put down roots and make it work.
It's funny what you say about people holding doors etc. I never felt that NJ folks where horribly rude. Abrupt perhaps but I always got an acknowledgement, people held doors, etc. I just joined a gym here and I must say, I've encountered a high degree of snobbery that was not apparent in my trusty old YMCA in NJ where we were all buddies and very friendly to one another. Of course, we are renting on the fringe of snobbery and the further west you go, people become really pretentious. My poor little old 9 year old Camry is out of place amongst all the Lexus, Mercedes, BMWs, etc. It is like a Lexus showroom here in Texas...never seen so many. Almost feel like buying a big ol' pickup clunker and mounting steer horns!! Or a NJ Strong bumper sticker!! It is a mixed bag with all the transplants here. Went we do buy a house, we are going to avoid buying in the wealthier area for this reason. I'm more comfortable in a solidly middle class environment where people are a bit more down to earth. Probably same can be said of any area in the country.
Best of luck. At 30 you have so many options open to you. I feel that ours are more limited at 50 and less forgiving of mistakes. And btw, I never badmouth NJ to any folks here in Texas. You can't believe how many NJ folks I run into here---and it is not just a handful either. Texas does seem to be the land of opportunity and things are booming. I'm sure that is true in other areas as well.
So many people here are astonishingly rude, selfish, and ignorant.
for the most part, people are always very nice to me. people who complain about "others" as a general large group lead me to believe that they are the jerks. you get what you give.
The first link breaks it down by individual municipality, second link is county by county. "Decline of nearly 17 percent since 2008 has seen statewide median value drop from $377,000 to $312,000"
Yeah but com'on compare that to like high double digits in value drop in places like NV, AZ, FL, etc. 17 percent isn't very much (and we forget how bad things were in 2008.)
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