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I don't even live in NH yet, but from what I can tell, I will fit right in with the way you guys think. I definitely lean toward the conservative and I agree that the "underprivileged" (read: lazy) need to get off their butts and start finding a way to take care of themselves instead of wanting tax payers to give them a free ride. Way too many in my neck of the US think that the world should fall at their feet. I can't stand that mindset.
However, going back to the title of the thread - since I am looking to move up there and am not completely sure of the 'good' and 'bad' areas... what parts of Manchester/Concord/Nashua ARE the bad areas? I figure the crime rate there can't compare to Birmingham, where I live now, but I don't want to jump from one pot into another!
In Concord you can have crime anywhere, but off-hand honestly I can't think of any neighborhoods I'd absolutely avoid, even walking alone at night. Biggest danger would probably be lack of sidewalks and getting hit by a car walking in the street or on the shoulder.
There is some property crime though, of course. Concord is well below average for everything except theft/burg.
Also, those services provided at the beloved Starbucks & Dunkin Donuts, being served at great manchester restaurants such as Fratellos, Longhorn, Mass, etc and going to shop at the mall. Those who serve us, WORK! And if they didn't we'd all have to travel to Boston to have a burger. So next time any of you want to call the underprivileged, (specifically the working poor) lazy, bite your tongue, because those "lazies" are the ones that cater and serve you everyday.
Here's my take: I read an outstanding and fasinating book called "Tipping Point"- it basically explains why and when certain trends take place. The "ghetto" areas of Manchester happen because other ghetto type people move there and they are in turn influenced by the behavior around them. When you have small, seemingly unimportant things like litter, graffitti, chain link fences, unkempt lawns and deteriorating buildings, it creates an environment where that culture fosters and permeates more serious crime and problems. It actually leads to more drugs, gangs, domestic violence and crime.
The solution: like what New York did in the 90's to combat crime, the cities need to target the small stuff- the agressive panhandles, the litterers, the graffiti artists. They discovered the people doing apparently benign things like that tended to have more serious records. You need to cover up griffiti as soon as it happens, pick up the trash, clean the yards and overgrown brush, attack the very simple things which lead to a crime culture. When people go into a neighborhood like that, they mentally think it's an "anythingn goes" kind of area- it sets the tone for crime. It sounds stupid but it really does drastically affect this "turning point" in blighted areas. Once the people in NY got the point that graffiting the trains and jumping over turnstiles wouldn't work, it completely changed the dynamic of the city. Manchester and Nashua are no different. It would just take a bit of effort to revitalize the areas.
I haven't read all the posts on here so I'm sure this has already been stated, but I will reiterate it because I just read this in the news. Manchester police are looking to fairly dramatically increase the number of officers to combat the increase in crime. Most of the crimes are robbery (stealing, burglary, theft... not sure what the difference is, legally-speaking.) They have said that when they arrest someone for one crime, they find in talking to the "perp" that in almost all cases he is she is addicted to drugs (primarily heroin.)
I agree generally with what tkx7 is saying about the "crime culture." Right now, though, it seems like Manchester's major crime problem is young. As we go through the years, I think this "anything goes" view will grow and the children of today's criminals will be committing many types of crime and the environment may become "ghettoized." But today it seems that the focus needs to be on combatting the drug problem (and I offer up no solutions for that... there's the issue of educating drug USERS, but I have no idea how to stop the flow of drugs from Mass. to NH.)
When I first moved to NH about 6 years ago, I lived in downtown Manchester - right in the thick of the crime area shown on that map! I'm a professional with an advanced degree but I just had no idea where to live and needed to find an apartment quickly. I was coming from a big city and wanted an urban environment. My rent was fairly high for the area, I had to go through an application process, credit check, etc., and the building seemed fairly secure. My street felt scary then - lots of yelling and fighting in the street at night, people ringing my buzzer incessantly (I don't know who they thought lived in my apartment) but since then, there have been some REALLY scary crimes right in my area. I've lived in several major cities before and I always felt comfortable, but I would not feel comfortable living where I used to live in Manchester. I wouldn't even feel comfortable walking in the area at night. We have considered selling and moving into one of the new luxury apartment buildings down in the mill area, but even in that area it's not a matter of if, but WHEN your car will be broken into in the resident parking area.
That said, at the same time, Elm Street has really improved in just the last 6 years. There are some cool new establishments. It is unfortunate that this is balanced by a major rise in crime. I have no doubt there are plenty of suburban areas of Manchester which are nice places to live. But some of us would like a truly urban mixed-use area in which to live. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to walk out of my apartment and to a café, market, whatever. And there are new residences which seem to offer this. But petty crime abounds.
Last edited by cowbell76; 01-28-2014 at 10:30 AM..
Like I say, it's not the major crime they need to necessarily focus on- it's the petty crime and culture. The lack of people caring about the maintenance of their properties, the litter, the graffiti- get it immediately. I see the same graffiti on Manchester fences and houses for months on end. The houses are run down and it looks like no one cares. This basically just tells everyone it's a bad place to be and live so criminals take advantage. If these issues are addressed you dramatically decrease crime because people get the idea it's a community, not a place for assaults, break ins and drug use. If you only go after drug dealers and criminals you do nothing to address the root of the problem.
To see what I mean in action just visit Portsmouth. There are plenty of very similar houses and neighbhorhoods with people making similar wages to Manchester "ghetto" areas. The difference is the sidewalks are clean, there is no graffiti, not as much litter, there might be better taken care of porches and yards like a few flower pots or stuff, it's more welcoming in general. And you don't have nearly the same crime rates.
Like I say, it's not the major crime they need to necessarily focus on- it's the petty crime and culture. The lack of people caring about the maintenance of their properties, the litter, the graffiti- get it immediately. I see the same graffiti on Manchester fences and houses for months on end. The houses are run down and it looks like no one cares. This basically just tells everyone it's a bad place to be and live so criminals take advantage. If these issues are addressed you dramatically decrease crime because people get the idea it's a community, not a place for assaults, break ins and drug use. If you only go after drug dealers and criminals you do nothing to address the root of the problem.
I get what you're saying but it seems like right now the root cause of most of the petty crimes and the "ghetto culture" is drugs. I guess it's kind of a chicken and egg situation. You do have a point about the rundown nature of some parts of the city looking more welcoming to criminals, but I don't know that if things looked a little nicer drug dealers wouldn't come in. Short of razing all the buildings and bringing a lot more money into the area, some of the neighborhoods will never become gentrified to the point that criminals stay away. You can tackle all the small stuff and that's certainly a good thing, but if these people are all drug addicts things aren't going to change that much. We already have a large population of drug addicts and, it seems, an established network of dealers. What I was trying to say is that I think as time goes on your point will be very valid but I think that right now it's secondary to other things. Thinking about it some more, I shouldn't completely dismiss those ideas - right now you certainly already have some crime - like vandalism - which might not be directly connected to the drug problem. I think as time goes on (as you suggest with the tipping point concept) you'll have generations of people who have never known anything different and take no pride in their environment, and who commit petty crimes just to act out. Of course this has existed for a long time, but I mean on a wider scale than we've had so far, and then things just keep doing downhill. But I still think the dramatic increase in crime is new - we're still close in time to the root cause of the increase, which is increased drug use and dealing.
I hope Manchester can get the resources (or better use the resources they already have) to focus on the drug problem AND have a zero tolerance policy for petty crimes.
I could be really wrong but I can't think of any nice areas of Portsmouth in which wages are similar to those in the ghetto areas of Manchester... but perhaps it's all a perception issue... it looks nicer so I assume they're more affluent. But, all the nice areas are pretty high rent, which is why I tend to think the wages are higher. (I'm also curious about zoning... in contrast to some people on here, I tend to be in favor of very strict zoning laws and I am guessing that Portsmouth is much stricter, or at least better enforces those laws... a good idea for Manchester, but what can they really do if people refuse to respond to citations?)
Last edited by cowbell76; 01-28-2014 at 11:18 AM..
I lived in Portsmouth making minimum wage after college paying $550 total for rent. I guess that might be slightly more than Manchester, but a lot of my friends were paying like $450 in houses and units close to town. I never felt unsafe walking around at night there. Residents kept their properties tidy and pleasant. There was a variety of income and people in a few blocks distance. Having moved upward to an actual career and so forth I was landed in Manchester for a year. When you go to the "ghetto" area there people seem to take no pride in their property. Like I mentiond: chain link fences, unswept sidewalks and streets, overgrown bushes, weeds, trash and graffiti. Those things have nothing to do with how poor you are- they really don't cost much of anything to address. They just don't care at all.
I lived in Portsmouth making minimum wage after college paying $550 total for rent. I guess that might be slightly more than Manchester, but a lot of my friends were paying like $450 in houses and units close to town. I never felt unsafe walking around at night there. Residents kept their properties tidy and pleasant. There was a variety of income and people in a few blocks distance. Having moved upward to an actual career and so forth I was landed in Manchester for a year. When you go to the "ghetto" area there people seem to take no pride in their property. Like I mentiond: chain link fences, unswept sidewalks and streets, overgrown bushes, weeds, trash and graffiti. Those things have nothing to do with how poor you are- they really don't cost much of anything to address. They just don't care at all.
That is very interesting. Are you and these friends living with roommates, or what? Is this relatively recent? I was paying about $800 a month in the ghetto in Manchester and lived alone in a one-bedroom apartment, albeit one slightly nicer than the surrounding buildings. I was thinking of what someone would pay to rent on their own (or rent for a family of dependents) not what one person's share would be in an apartment. I looked at a REALLY bad place in Manchester - triple-decker, rented by some guy, not a property management company, totally scary area, and it was still $600. I can't imagine paying less than that in a nice area of Portsmouth for a whole apartment.
If you're living alone for that amount, I want to know where! I haven't seen rents remotely like that in Portsmouth.
Some of the things you mention have to do with municipal services, not the residents. And yeah, new fences do cost money, quite a lot.
If you're talking about $550 to share an apartment or $450 to share a house, then you're talking about much higher average rents for a whole apartment than in the ghetto areas of Manchester. You also seem to be talking about an educated community, which makes a difference. And a new college grad in low-level position making minimum wage is very different from a middle-aged person with no skills making minimum wage. I don't think the communities can be said to be similar economically... certainly not socio-economically. One group will most likely move up and out of their present economic situation while the other is probably stuck.
All these problems need to be addressed, and I guess it's hard to say which came first, and which should be tackled first.
Last edited by cowbell76; 01-28-2014 at 12:03 PM..
ok yeah- I shared a 2 bedroom with someone else for that price and it was 4 years ago. Other people I knew rented houses very similar to ones in Manchester for about $1500 a month but split 3 ways usually/3 bedroom units. The housing is definitely more expensive in Portsmouth and higher taxes. I think the reason it's going up though is that it is nicer than a place like Manchester's housing close to downtown in the sense of all the small things that I mentioned that make if feel more welcoming and homey.
Here's my take: I read an outstanding and fasinating book called "Tipping Point"- it basically explains why and when certain trends take place. The "ghetto" areas of Manchester happen because other ghetto type people move there and they are in turn influenced by the behavior around them. When you have small, seemingly unimportant things like litter, graffitti, chain link fences, unkempt lawns and deteriorating buildings, it creates an environment where that culture fosters and permeates more serious crime and problems. It actually leads to more drugs, gangs, domestic violence and crime.
The solution: like what New York did in the 90's to combat crime, the cities need to target the small stuff- the agressive panhandles, the litterers, the graffiti artists. They discovered the people doing apparently benign things like that tended to have more serious records. You need to cover up griffiti as soon as it happens, pick up the trash, clean the yards and overgrown brush, attack the very simple things which lead to a crime culture. When people go into a neighborhood like that, they mentally think it's an "anythingn goes" kind of area- it sets the tone for crime. It sounds stupid but it really does drastically affect this "turning point" in blighted areas. Once the people in NY got the point that graffiting the trains and jumping over turnstiles wouldn't work, it completely changed the dynamic of the city. Manchester and Nashua are no different. It would just take a bit of effort to revitalize the areas.
The "one bad apple" syndrome I like to call it. It takes vigilante good people to prevent it from happening.
Manchester has an aging senior citizen population that probably have a hard time making ends meet and keeping up on their bills so they are in no position to fight it.
A lot of the twenty somethings seem to be caught up involved in it in one way or another. It is what they know and don't have the will power or people in their lives that can help them better themselves. A bad cycle takes drastic measures to change it, not enablers and users.
There are good and decent students,parents, family and people in Manchester. They should unite and try to find ways to protect their kids from the bad influences. Many seem to be doing well, pass on the advice to others and communicate.
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