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That was originally how Justice League Part 1 + 2 were supposed to go: Steppenwolf was to mop the floor with a Superman-less League in Part 1, which would end on a cliffhanger. Superman wouldn't fully rejoin the League until Part 2, the movie that introduced Darkseid as the real threat.
But WB got the jitters and thought a "fun, balanced" Avenger-ly movie was the way to go. "More jokes!"
I'm curious to see how hard the Avengers get their a$$es kicked in Infinity War.
It can't be called "good guys don't win" if they do win in the sequel.
I can't, off hand, think of any major movies that have made a profit with "good guys don't win."
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
DEATHWISH
TAXI DRIVER
ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST
NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN
THE USUAL SUSPECTS
CHINATOWN
BASIC INSTINCT
THE WICKER MAN
ROSEMARY'S BABY
THE OMEN
SEVEN
BLADE RUNNER
PLANET OF THE APES
EX MACHINA
THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS
PRIMAL FEAR
PRESUMED INNOCENT
...AND JUSTICE FOR ALL
Not saying those were all great movies. But they were all either hits or very influential or both.
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
DEATHWISH
TAXI DRIVER
ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST
NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN
THE USUAL SUSPECTS
CHINATOWN
BASIC INSTINCT
THE WICKER MAN
ROSEMARY'S BABY
THE OMEN
SEVEN
BLADE RUNNER
PLANET OF THE APES
EX MACHINA
THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS
PRIMAL FEAR
PRESUMED INNOCENT
...AND JUSTICE FOR ALL
Not saying those were all great movies. But they were all either hits or very influential or both.
The good guy does win in Taxi Driver.
At the end of Death Wish, Paul (Bronson) gets away with his vigilante kills.
The best examples of the lot are Rosemary's Baby, POTA, The Wicker Man (savage), and No Country For Old Men.
They don't in one movie, they do in the next, hence the cliffhanger. Don't be surprised if that's what Avengers: IW and Avengers 4 do.
Second act cliffhangers happen all the time. I don't think that's what rstevens62 meant when he said,"...the 'good guys' do not always come out on top at the end."
Second act cliffhangers happen all the time. I don't think that's what rstevens62 meant when he said,"...the 'good guys' do not always come out on top at the end."
The second act to which you refer most often happens within the context of one film. I mentioned a multi-parter (that didn't happen) that was plotted as a very dark sequence and then diluted multiple times, like more and more water being sprayed over an existing watercolor.
rstevens62 still referred to good guys coming out on top — barely. Like a pyrrhic victory.
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
DEATHWISH
TAXI DRIVER
ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST
NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN
THE USUAL SUSPECTS
CHINATOWN
BASIC INSTINCT
THE WICKER MAN
ROSEMARY'S BABY
THE OMEN
SEVEN
BLADE RUNNER
PLANET OF THE APES
EX MACHINA
THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS
PRIMAL FEAR
PRESUMED INNOCENT
...AND JUSTICE FOR ALL
Not saying those were all great movies. But they were all either hits or very influential or both.
Well, thanks, Mark.
Yes, horror movies and dystopias are two major exceptions to my point. Yeah, I'd banished "John Carpenter's 'The Thing'" from my mind. Now it's back.
I'd argue that movies like Chinatown, No Country for Old men, and Chinatown are really dystopias.
I'd argue that Blade Runner is not an exception. Either Deckard is the hero and wins or Baty is an example of my "Bad guy turns good and dies."
There might be some debate in a similar regard about Ex Machina, too. Several of those fall into my catergory of "good guy who was not really so good loses"--which is the classical tragedy plot of the flawed protagonist who ultimately fails to overcome his flaw (a la MacBeth).
Travis is not a hero. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a villain, but he sure isn't a good guy. The real villain of that movie is probably society, and it definitely wins in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
At the end of Death Wish, Paul (Bronson) gets away with his vigilante kills.
Ditto previous answer. Granted, this morality is much clearer in the book than in the movie.
I'd argue that movies like Chinatown, No Country for Old men, and Chinatown are really dystopias.
I would not disagree with that argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
I'd argue that Blade Runner is not an exception. Either Deckard is the hero and wins or Baty is an example of my "Bad guy turns good and dies."
Deckard is not a good guy. Deckard is the villain. It's just that he doesn't finally admit it and act upon it until the end. Roy Batty is the hero. And he loses in the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
There might be some debate in a similar regard about Ex Machina, too. Several of those fall into my catergory of "good guy who was not really so good loses"--which is the classical tragedy plot of the flawed protagonist who ultimately fails to overcome his flaw (a la MacBeth).
I've only seen it once. I need another viewing before I argue.
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