Wonder Woman movie {Merged Threads} (20th Century, Raiders of the Lost Ark, NYC, Canada)
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Oh, wow. Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way... However, I'm sure that nearly $400 million dollars worth of domestic fans probably feel differently.
So, Mark... You think that a film with a lousy ending could end up making nearly $400 million dollars domestically? Because usually with a film like you described, people will usually say that they liked it, but that it was ruined at the end... And which usually affects the overall movie.
But, Mark... That's exactly what the writers of this film did. Because for most of the battle, it seemed like Ares was stronger and was essentially kicking Diana's arse. However, it was the the emotional conflict between the hero and the villain, the hero's inner fortitude that won the day. Also, Diana did defeat her inner demons. Because remember earlier in the movie when Diana was training? And her aunt or her mother(I don't remember) told her that she kept doubting herself? Well, apparently, Diana must have still been doubting her true power when fighting Ares... However, after Steve's death and then focusing on Steve's words, which were counter to the rhetoric that Ares had been feeding her about how horrible mankind was and how they deserved to be destroyed... Diana became focused and was able to recall some of the things that Steve said, and which were the exact opposite to what Ares was hammering into her head. And as a result of that, she said the one famous line before destroying Ares: It's not about "deserve." It's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.
And perhaps you overlooked this, Mark, because like mkpunk, you may have been a bit hung-up on a movie trope that you perceived as being used a little too much.
William, I saw something in Wonder Woman most didn't. My ex loved it, I didn't. She didn't think it was original but she loved it for the whole female superhero thing. I saw it as a movie that copied from another movie which most do not in any of the movie fan pages I frequent.
That said, bad movies can make tons of money Transformers: Dark of the Moon I hated and it made $352m stateside alone. Transformers: Age of Extinction was even worse and still made $245m. Batman V. Superman was divisive yet made $330m in America. I honestly don't know how BVS mad less than Dark of the Moon...
Well, apparently, Diana must have still been doubting her true power when fighting Ares... However, after Steve's death and then focusing on Steve's words, which were counter to the rhetoric that Ares had been feeding her about how horrible mankind was and how they deserved to be destroyed... Diana became focused and was able to recall some of the things that Steve said, and which were the exact opposite to what Ares was hammering into her head.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
I don't think you understand what the word "apparently" means.
Sorry, but you lost me on that one.
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And as a result of that, she said the one famous line before destroying Ares: It's not about "deserve." It's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
Thank you! That is EXACTLY the line I could not remember. So this character who just killed a few dozen people and set out to assassinate one guy at a dinner party believes in "Love." You don't see a disconnect there??? "I believe in love. Let me illustrate by killing dozens of people."
"Behold! I shall show the way to love and understanding by kickin' ass and not even caring to take names!"
Hmmm. So let me see... So I guess, Mark, if some violent criminals broke into your house one evening with the intent on doing you and your family harm... instead of doing everything in your power to stop, hurt, or kill these violent criminals before they do the same to you or your family, I'm guessing that you would sit back and let them do what they wanted to... because you knew that it would be a violent offense again these criminals if you would try to do them any harm. ....Okay, I got it. lol
Also, Mark... if I had known that you were a Quaker, I would have never tried to use the argument that I used with you. lol
Last edited by William Taylor; 07-23-2017 at 04:25 AM..
WONDER WOMAN is hardly the first good and/or successful movie to suffer from a weak ending. Just off the top of my head:
RETURN OF THE JEDI. Ewoks anyone? Anyone ...? Yet still one of the most successful movies ever made.
But the Ewoks had nothing to do with the ending, and particularly existed throughout the entire movie. Plus, I would say that the ending(i.e. when Luke confronted Darth Vader and the Emperor) was the best part of that movie.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
THE BLUES BROTHERS. Proving yet again that when John Landis can't figure out how to end a movie, he just has a bunch of car chases and mayhem. See also AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON and ANIMAL HOUSE. (Although in the case of ANIMAL HOUSE, I think the ending works brilliantly.)
But I thought that we were talking about 'classic' movies here.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
THE HOWLING. How shall we end this otherwise fantastic horror movie? I know! Let's have our heroine turn into a shih tzu on the 10 o'clock news!
LOL The ending actually matched such a cruddy movie. But is there any way that we can compare apples to apples, Mark?
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
PROMETHEUS. Great first act. Problematic second act. Train wreck in the third act.
But still... you're comparing apples to oranges, Mark.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
THE AVENGERS. Diabolical Loki's master plan? I shall disrupt traffic in downtown Manhattan for a few hours!
Okay... that's more like it, Mark... but is that all that you got out of the ending of The Avengers?
Also, no wonder we're on different wavelengths about this.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
THE WOLVERINE. Actually not a half bad flick until the final fight between hero and villain, which resorts to the same tired good guy punching bad guy until bad guy doesn't get up anymore.
Well, that's not what I consider a classic movie, but I couldn't agree with you more.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
TERMINATOR 2. Overall a great movie. But the Terminator's "thumbs up" at the end? Total cheese that ruined an otherwise bittersweet moment.
But I thought that we had been talking about how some movies suffered weak endings. But now you're nitpicking about a particular 'moment' in a movie.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE. The entire movie definitely has problems, but the ending makes no sense at all. An ending worthy of the Batman TV show from the '60s. Yet the movie was a HUGE hit. The first globally succesful live-action super hero flick.
You'll get no argument out of me about that movie, however, with that movie you're still comparing apples to oranges because in your original premise, you implied that it was only the ending which caused a problem for a movie. However, with this movie, like you had said, the entire movie had problems. Therefore, your criteria to also include 'successful' movies(and even if they're not 'good' movies overall), kind of defeats the purpose of your argument.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
SPIDER-MAN HOMECOMING. I had no big complaints with the final fight. But the denoument between Peter and Tony was dumb, as was May's last scene.
But you are now changing the goalposts, Mark. Because movie denouements are not what we've been talking about. Because the ending/climax of SMH was great. Plus, considering that I slept through a considerable amount of that movie, I can honestly say that the ending/climatic scene of this movie was great.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
KILL BILL, VOL. 1. Great movie that ends with a live-action cartoonish bloodbath.
But really, Mark? Because what do you expect from a Quentin Tarantino movie.
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