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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,348 posts, read 54,470,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango
This has never been my experience and I've owned 3 different BMWs as my one and only motorcycle for the last 24 years. My first, a 1983 R80 bought in 1990. Very, very reliable. I've ridden mine across the country a couple of times.
What were the other two?
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango
BMWs are commonly used in the nationwide Iron Butt Rally ("Iron Butt Rally Winner Does 11,799 Miles in 11'Days"). Finish results of the last Iron Butt Rally, 2013: http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2013/07-12-13.pdfMany BMWs are listed.
Do you really consider 12K miles a test of durability for any modern motorcycle? I don't. 12K in 11 days tests the rider but IMO should be well within the capability of any modern bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echo7tango
Don't listen to a few detractors, or even a few fans like me. Look at the data, look at the facts, then decide for yourself.
I have, among the facts I looked at were a final drive failure at 43K on my own well maintained bike as well as personal knowledge of a few others. One of the more amusing 'facts' I've listened to is people citing 'fine German craftsmanship', funny considering many of the production workers at the motorcycle plant are Turks and Pakistanis.
They're good bikes but innately superior to others due to 'German engineering'? I'd vote advertising hoopla at best on that topic.
I know that peer pressure and a bit of snob appeal drove the crowd I rode with to BMW ownership. And yeah I admit I drank the Kool-Aid on the GS, which was the bike that gave me the most aggravation of all. My first BMW, a K750S, was cheap and incomplete and a project, and the present one was the cheapest touring bike I could find. Now the fact that it was the cheapest should guide prosepctive owners when they are making a decision-Gold Wings, Valkyries, and GeexerGlides hold their value a lot better than the LT's.
So when you see the long distance community go on about how great the BMW's are, keep in mind that it's peer pressure driving that decison.
One last nugget-I went out on a ride with the local BMW club. Of the couple dozen bikes on hand that day, 2 were BMW's, one ridden by an old German, very much a classic BMW, and an odd GS. The rest were japanese, and one Harley rider who got hopelessly lost and took hours to find his way back. Sure they all owned BMW's but when the time came to ride, they chose other tools.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,468,448 times
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Have owned many beemers over the years, though all bought and sold 'cuz my mood changed, not due to any reliability issues (put almost 250K miles on my first R60/5 airhead before I finally sold it). But nearly all were different vintages of airhead and oilhead RT 'sport touring' bikes, which to longtime purists, are the 'tried and true' BMW's anyway, and why models like the K bikes never quite caught on (though they still have their following).
Although the trouble nowadays is pretty much the same one affecting modern cars, and indeed anything that's heavily 'computerized'… namely you have to take 'em into the dealer now to diagnose even the simplest problems. But that just comes with the territory if you want all the modern goodies, like ABS, heated grips & seats, adjustable windshield, ride control, multi-mode fuel injection, bluetooth, etc..
I am hoping to test ride a K1200LT this weekend to see if I enjoy it enough to get by the potential money pit that I am afraid it is.
I am also not sure what year/s might be less problematic thus far, even if I want to take a chance.
I am hoping to test ride a K1200LT this weekend to see if I enjoy it enough to get by the potential money pit that I am afraid it is.
I am also not sure what year/s might be less problematic thus far, even if I want to take a chance.
Apples to Oranges, I know, but:
My two closest riding companions both had K1200LT's at the same time I was a GL1800 fan. We've since moved on to other models (two R1200GSA's, and an F700GS for the shorter of us), but in our experience of several cross-country rides together during that time, the GL1800 was superior to the KLT's. About the only advantage the BMW had was that its ergo's better accommodated taller riders. That, and the power-adjusting windshield.
Were I to choose a Beemer other than my GSA, I'd probably be on either a K16 or an RT. I got away from Gold Wings because of all the damned plastic, and the interest in roads less traveled.
^
Well I am 6'7" 240lbs, so a bike made for taller riders is something that would benefit me. My Yamaha Venture Royale seemed to feel better than friends GoldWings when sitting in the seat, and definitely had more HP being a V Max engine to help get the extra weight going down the road.
Sadly it is raining today, so I will have to wait until Sunday to get the test ride on the BMW.
^
Well I am 6'7" 240lbs, so a bike made for taller riders is something that would benefit me. My Yamaha Venture Royale seemed to feel better than friends GoldWings when sitting in the seat, and definitely had more HP being a V Max engine to help get the extra weight going down the road.
Sadly it is raining today, so I will have to wait until Sunday to get the test ride on the BMW.
6'7"? No, a Gold Wing would definitely not be for you then. One of the quibbles about Honda is they've done nothing in the long life of the GL1800 to change the ergos.
Buddy of mine had a Venture Royale - I found it a little top heavy myself.
6'7"? No, a Gold Wing would definitely not be for you then. One of the quibbles about Honda is they've done nothing in the long life of the GL1800 to change the ergos.
Buddy of mine had a Venture Royale - I found it a little top heavy myself.
It wasn't for me, but I know people who feel that way. I've heard that this BMW I am interested in is very top heavy.
I've had two beemers myself and since the mid '70s have known people who've worked for the US headquarters of every German car manufacturer in technical/warranty positions. Because of my own experiences and hearing many stories about the cars, the point I was trying to make is I believe the idea of 'German engineering' being somehow innately superior to any other country's engineering is a myth. I've known a number of riders with mileage badges, I've also known far too many with things like final drive failures, transmission issues, etc. on well maintained bikes that haven't been abused/over-loaded to buy into the myth.
Nor should you buy in. It's all a damn ego trip. I hung out with Central California BMW (motorcycle rider's club) for a number of years, because my best riding pal had a 1985 K100RS (one of the earlier ones to come to US shores). My pal could not be separated from his BMW, despite the quirks and dodgy delivery (= ego). The Central Cal BMW guys, while great pals and loyal to a fault, were a clique. C'mon, get real: they let me in with my Ducati because I had a bespoke, weird bike twice as exotic as theirs (early and very rare model Ducati 851, first of the long line of Ducati liquid cooled twins). Otherwise, pfft: I would have been just some kid on a Japanese bike as far as they were concerned. I just laughed at the pretension.
I've been riding since 1987, now on bike no. 14 including three track-only and one converted street-to-track then back again. All since 2005 have been street-only. I now buy bikes that are a bit quirky, a bit downright strange, that mostly work but could also go up in a mushroom cloud of expensive parts for any or NO reason. That describes BMW-anything. In my case, it's Ducati (again). Expensive to maintain, needs more frequent TLC, and stuff fails that shouldn't. What, BMW doesn't do-same? Baloney!
My 2010 Multistrada S Touring (MTS1200 ST) was a fine bike, but hey: just for something different, let's detach some ego here. Yes, I paid handsomely for the Multi. Fortunately, mine was mostly trouble-free though there were a number of recalls (all addressed properly by Ducati). Many guys had glitches or far more serious problems that detracted from what was (is) a phenomenal platform in the dual-sport realm, emphasis more on the "sport" in that case.
I traded it on a 2014 recently, slightly different model (Pike's Peak). That one, too, could and may break in strange ways when least expected. My setup is, again, bespoke and definitely original because I don't like to ride what everyone else has. But I'm not going to "defend" Ducati their quirks, either. They really should be delivering highest-quality for the sky-high prices they charge! But in three German cars and same number of Italian bikes to-date, I'm here to tell you without a shadow of a doubt: it ain't so. Great engineering, marginal execution on quality.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,348 posts, read 54,470,554 times
Reputation: 40766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondebaerde
Nor should you buy in. It's all a damn ego trip. I hung out with Central California BMW (motorcycle rider's club) for a number of years, because my best riding pal had a 1985 K100RS (one of the earlier ones to come to US shores). My pal could not be separated from his BMW, despite the quirks and dodgy delivery (= ego). The Central Cal BMW guys, while great pals and loyal to a fault, were a clique. C'mon, get real: they let me in with my Ducati because I had a bespoke, weird bike twice as exotic as theirs (early and very rare model Ducati 851, first of the long line of Ducati liquid cooled twins). Otherwise, pfft: I would have been just some kid on a Japanese bike as far as they were concerned. I just laughed at the pretension.
I've been riding since 1987, now on bike no. 14 including three track-only and one converted street-to-track then back again. All since 2005 have been street-only. I now buy bikes that are a bit quirky, a bit downright strange, that mostly work but could also go up in a mushroom cloud of expensive parts for any or NO reason. That describes BMW-anything. In my case, it's Ducati (again). Expensive to maintain, needs more frequent TLC, and stuff fails that shouldn't. What, BMW doesn't do-same? Baloney!
My 2010 Multistrada S Touring (MTS1200 ST) was a fine bike, but hey: just for something different, let's detach some ego here. Yes, I paid handsomely for the Multi. Fortunately, mine was mostly trouble-free though there were a number of recalls (all addressed properly by Ducati). Many guys had glitches or far more serious problems that detracted from what was (is) a phenomenal platform in the dual-sport realm, emphasis more on the "sport" in that case.
I traded it on a 2014 recently, slightly different model (Pike's Peak). That one, too, could and may break in strange ways when least expected. My setup is, again, bespoke and definitely original because I don't like to ride what everyone else has. But I'm not going to "defend" Ducati their quirks, either. They really should be delivering highest-quality for the sky-high prices they charge! But in three German cars and same number of Italian bikes to-date, I'm here to tell you without a shadow of a doubt: it ain't so. Great engineering, marginal execution on quality.
While Germany has no doubt produced some wonderfully engineered mechanical devices I sometimes wonder if Mechanical Engineering 101 in Germany doesn't begin with "Never use just 1 part where you could use 5 instead" As for execution on the bikes I used to chuckle when some would swoon over 'fine German craftsmanship', from what I'd been told a large percentage of production workers in the Berlin bike plant were Turks and Pakistanis.
I got my first bike in 1968, I have to say my favorite bike was a '97 Moto Guzzi 1100 Sporti, esthetically pleasing, laden with all the 'good' stuff (gold line Brembos, Marchesini wheels, WP upside down fork and shock, etc.), and thru Borla carbon cans the best sounding bike I ever owned. Although I didn't have it long enough (nothing to do with the bike) to put high mileage on it, from all reports as reliable as gravity and very simple to maintain (screw and lock nut valve adjusters hanging out in the breeze made valve adjustments a non-event) and perhaps best of all, loaded with that immeasurable but no doubt present quality labeled 'character'. When that character speaks Italiano, so much the better.
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One of the quibbles about Honda is they've done nothing in the long life of the GL1800 to change the ergos. 
As for execution on the bikes I used to chuckle when some would swoon over 'fine German craftsmanship', from what I'd been told a large percentage of production workers in the Berlin bike plant were Turks and Pakistanis. 
