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On of the best ways to learn to control is to, after taking basic lessons, take a low power street bike with worn out street tires and drive it on sand, dirt or gravel roads. Low traction surfaces will teach you a lot about how to handle unusual situations and are great fun at relatively low speeds.
Yep. I grew up riding dirtbikes in tight woods/open fields and recently had a buddy over at my place who never rode a dirtbike but had been riding street bikes for a year. He said he learned more in 20 minutes out in the woods then in the last year on his road bike.
There is a reason riders with dirt bike experience are under-represented in crash statistics.
^^^ Agreed. I've been riding for about 8 years, exclusively on streetbikes. But, this last year I did a class at a Supermoto school where they provide Suzuki DRZ400SMs and let you loose on a go-kart track. That style of riding is completely counter-intuitive to me and I did struggle with it, but what it taught me was just how much the bike can be squirming and squirting around underneath you and it's not that big of a deal. It made a HUGE difference in my confidence in the bike at my next trackday. Now I don't start freaking out if the back ends steps out a bit from an overly-aggressive downshift or if the bike gets a bit wobbly mid-corner. Just ride it out and all is well (and FUN!).
^^^ Agreed. I've been riding for about 8 years, exclusively on streetbikes. But, this last year I did a class at a Supermoto school where they provide Suzuki DRZ400SMs and let you loose on a go-kart track. That style of riding is completely counter-intuitive to me and I did struggle with it, but what it taught me was just how much the bike can be squirming and squirting around underneath you and it's not that big of a deal. It made a HUGE difference in my confidence in the bike at my next trackday. Now I don't start freaking out if the back ends steps out a bit from an overly-aggressive downshift or if the bike gets a bit wobbly mid-corner. Just ride it out and all is well (and FUN!).
Mike
yep! Once you embrace it it's massively fun.
When your in the woods it goes up another level since you have hidden roots, half embedded rocks, loose dirt/clay, thick layers of half decomposed leaves, loose sticks/branches, downed tree's, etc. Basically the ground is constantly trying to take the bike out from under you. After enough falls you start saving it, then you keep getting better at saving it until you rarely fall and are good at recovering. Good suspension setup helps a ton too.
Pick something with less than 50hp (about 20hp is the bottom end if you want to do any long stints on the freeway). The bikes that have 50hp or less are designed to be bikes for new riders to learn on, which means that they are Easier to ride. Easier to ride = more fun = learning more skills and building a better foundation upon which to move to a less stable, more aggressive, harder to ride type bike... like a 600/750/1000 supersport.
That said, if you're looking at buying a Honda CB650 from 1980, that's a different story. When you move back in time to the UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycles), the Suzuki GS, Kawasaki KZ, Honda CB, Yamaha XS models, they were built with a drastically different design in mind and are suitable for newer riders.
Lots of people survive a supersport as their first bike (meaning they don't crash spectacularly, of course lots do that too which is why the insurance rates are sky high), but if you really get into strafing corner apexes you'll find yourself woefully unprepared. You need to build a foundation of Basic skills (crawl before walk, walk before run) in order to become a highly skillful rider, and the 600/750/1000cc sport bikes activly inhibit the building of those basic skills. Too much of your effort will be focused on simply not crashing. Riding a motorcycle Well requires so many things that are counter-intuitive, you'll never learn them if you are simply trying to survive the motorcycle you choose.
If you're worried about your "buddies", they aren't Really your buddies if they ditch you (some hazing is to be expected, but do you think you'd get more for riding a 250 or for crashing a 600?) Ditto if you find that they leave you behind instead of riding with you. If you're worried about what Other people think, don't ~ no one cares (or will even know the difference) that you're on a 250 vs a 600. If, by chance, you do encounter the wild ashat squid in the wild, it's best to ignore them and get away as soon as possible. Not a person/group you want to be involved with if you desire to stay scar free, out of the hospital, or become a life-long rider.
They're twitchier than standards. Engines are Jekyll and Hyde. Down low they're completely tame kittens, which can be deceptive. If you don't have throttle control down yet and keep the rpms down, no biggie. But at some point, you're going to end up in the upper rpm range and the bike behaves totally differently. They're really not all that fun to ride down low. Riding position isn't comfortable, low speed handling is more difficult due to the riding position than a standard would be although really not that much so.
In other words, I really don't think they're horrible beginner bikes depending on discipline. They've VERY powerful up top, but as long as you gradually ease into that they're really tame below about 8k. Of course, they're really not that fun to ride if you're not being a lunatic which is why you're see everyone making SV 650 clones and all the naked bikes with more relaxed geometry and without the frenetic top end you really can't use on the street anyway.
Pick something with less than 50hp (about 20hp is the bottom end if you want to do any long stints on the freeway). The bikes that have 50hp or less are designed to be bikes for new riders to learn on, which means that they are Easier to ride. Easier to ride = more fun = learning more skills and building a better foundation upon which to move to a less stable, more aggressive, harder to ride type bike... like a 600/750/1000 supersport.
I know the biggest thing as a new rider is wrist strength and grip. For someone that has never rode before riding for anymore than 30 minutes at a time can be hard. I don't know how many 600 riders I would see wondering between lanes 1, 2, 3... I rode a 250 for a year or two, it is surprisingly a very fun bike. I learned a ton on it and I've dropped it too. Not on the road of course. 250 to a 600 will feel very natural.
so do you think salesmen at dealerships should verify experience and refuse to sell a newbie a 1000? Or is their job just solely to sell a bike regardless of whether or not the buyer has experience?
I wonder how many people actually go into a dealership, have very little experience riding motorcycles and go out and buy a liter bike (1000RR, GSXR1000, R1 etc.)
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