Please help me decide if Montreal is for me - raising a small kid there (for sale, apartments)
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Me: 39, married with a kid on the way, just started an IT career so I don't make much money now but the future is bright. Currently living in Cleveland so I'm used to (and enjoy) cold snowy winters.
My wife and I have had our eyes set on Montreal for probably 6+ months now and have set it as a dream/goal to live there. Compared to where we've lived in America (Baltimore, small town in south Florida, Cleveland) it seems to have everything we could want - multiculturalism, great food, great arts and music scene, affordable rent and utilities, low crime compared to America (not that hard), universal healthcare, good school system, and the list goes on and on. We're at a point in our lives right now where we're really trying to compare and research everything and see if moving to Montreal really is what we should do. We both think it is, but we want to make an educated decision.
For the record, our goal would be to move there before our son starts school. So we've got roughly 4 years to prepare - me gain more knowledge and experience at work (and thus more money) and for us to learn French and teach our son French. I used to be a linguist in the Army so I'm good with learning languages. I've read all about how French is a requirement in Montreal and that's something we look forward to. Not a barrier.
So here are my concerns and questions: I've seen that rent is cheap which helps with our decision, but I have a dream of owning a small house with a garage or something of the like - I don't want to live in a noisy apartment with street parking and pay rent until I'm 85 and die. From the searching I've done, renting is cheap but buying a house seems to be extremely expensive in Montreal and Canada as a whole, with very little being found under half a million dollars. I don't mind a bit of a commute but I'm not rich. Is the goal of buying a small house in Canada a pipe dream? Is home ownership these days for the more wealthy people only? That's my biggest concern. $500,000+ is not a realistic price for me. Hopefully I was just searching on the wrong sites and there are some reasonably affordable houses for sale in the area.
With us having a child on the way, I wanted to ask how the public schools are in Montreal. I've read that they're good, in fact all of Canada in general has good schools. Where we live now has horrible schools unless you can afford $15K/year for a private school. I've also read that in Quebec the provincial government caps private schools at around $4800/year - is that true? And in Canada they pay a bit to families to help offset the price of raising kids - I entered our information and we'd be getting around $450/month. Impressive.
As soon as Covid gets better and the borders open, we want to take a few trips there and check it out. We're both certain we're going to fall in love with the city - we watch videos and read about it all the time. But before we do that, I'd just like some help seeing if it's a realistic goal - lower-middle class family, probably middle class in the future, moving to Montreal to raise a kid and enjoy food/arts/music/culture?
Also wanted to add that we would be renting an apartment when we got there and enjoying city life and the desire to buy a house would be a few years later (unless I found a great deal). How is life in Laval or the areas surrounding Montreal? Still awesome? I know Montreal has typical big city traffic, but how is the commute in general?
And in Canada they pay a bit to families to help offset the price of raising kids - I entered our information and we'd be getting around $450/month. Impressive.
Both Canada and Quebec provide financial assistance to families.
The income cut-off for the federal assistance is fairly low so I've never been eligible for that, and therefore don't know much about it. It's called (I think) Canada Child Benefit if you want to Google it.
Quebec's support (you can qualify both for it and the federal cash) is more universal though the amount you get varies according to income.
I am in the highest income category and I still get about 1000 dollars per year per child.
Compared to the rest of Canada and the USA, Quebec also has subsidized (very cheap) daycare and reasonably generous maternity and parental leave so you might want to look into that as well.
I've also read that in Quebec the provincial government caps private schools at around $4800/year - is that true?
I don't believe private school tuition is capped in Quebec.
What you do have is most of the private schools are subsidized by the provincial government which gives the private schools roughly the same money it would provide per pupil if they were in public school.
This generally keeps tuition fees a lot lower than most other places. My kids went to private high school and it was about 3000 dollars a year. Though in Montreal it might be a bit more expensive than that for some schools. Maybe in the 5000 range.
In order to qualify for this the private school needs to follow the Ministry of Education guidelines and programs pretty closely.
Most will do this, though a few do strike out on their own a bit and don't get the funding. They're more expensive of course - more typical of what you'd pay in Ontario or the US.
Me: 39, married with a kid on the way, just started an IT career so I don't make much money now but the future is bright. Currently living in Cleveland so I'm used to (and enjoy) cold snowy winters.
My wife and I have had our eyes set on Montreal for probably 6+ months now and have set it as a dream/goal to live there. Compared to where we've lived in America (Baltimore, small town in south Florida, Cleveland) it seems to have everything we could want - multiculturalism, great food, great arts and music scene, affordable rent and utilities, low crime compared to America (not that hard), universal healthcare, good school system, and the list goes on and on. We're at a point in our lives right now where we're really trying to compare and research everything and see if moving to Montreal really is what we should do. We both think it is, but we want to make an educated decision.
For the record, our goal would be to move there before our son starts school. So we've got roughly 4 years to prepare - me gain more knowledge and experience at work (and thus more money) and for us to learn French and teach our son French. I used to be a linguist in the Army so I'm good with learning languages. I've read all about how French is a requirement in Montreal and that's something we look forward to. Not a barrier.
So here are my concerns and questions: I've seen that rent is cheap which helps with our decision, but I have a dream of owning a small house with a garage or something of the like - I don't want to live in a noisy apartment with street parking and pay rent until I'm 85 and die. From the searching I've done, renting is cheap but buying a house seems to be extremely expensive in Montreal and Canada as a whole, with very little being found under half a million dollars. I don't mind a bit of a commute but I'm not rich. Is the goal of buying a small house in Canada a pipe dream? Is home ownership these days for the more wealthy people only? That's my biggest concern. $500,000+ is not a realistic price for me. Hopefully I was just searching on the wrong sites and there are some reasonably affordable houses for sale in the area.
With us having a child on the way, I wanted to ask how the public schools are in Montreal. I've read that they're good, in fact all of Canada in general has good schools. Where we live now has horrible schools unless you can afford $15K/year for a private school. I've also read that in Quebec the provincial government caps private schools at around $4800/year - is that true? And in Canada they pay a bit to families to help offset the price of raising kids - I entered our information and we'd be getting around $450/month. Impressive.
As soon as Covid gets better and the borders open, we want to take a few trips there and check it out. We're both certain we're going to fall in love with the city - we watch videos and read about it all the time. But before we do that, I'd just like some help seeing if it's a realistic goal - lower-middle class family, probably middle class in the future, moving to Montreal to raise a kid and enjoy food/arts/music/culture?
So first, I can tell you IT jobs pay a lot more in Montreal than in Cleveland and there's an abundance of jobs here in that field. Montreal would 110% be a good fit for you and your family as well, with everything you listed, it shows that we're a top tiered city. The quality of life here is phenomenal, COL is fantastic even though it has gotten more expensive in the past few years. The city just has so much to offer that other cities in the U.S and Canada cannot. Once everything goes back to normal and you see all the festivals and cool things the city has to offer. It is also a great place to raise a family.
When it comes to owning a house with a garage though, having a car in Montreal is tough not going to lie. A lot of the streets widths are being reduced, so is parking and certain boroughs are adding more fees for cars that create more exhaust. The lifestyle here is really (if you live in the inner core that is) ditch the car and walk/bike/transit everywhere. Of course this is not ideal for everyone, so another option if you want a car but also close proximity to everything, areas like NDG/CDN, Town of Mont Royal or Ville Saint Laurent are good options. They're in somewhat close proximity to the downtown/inner core cities and the cost of housing has not fully exploded their as of yet. You also have the West Island, which is a very English yet sleepy part of the island that is far away from the core. Very car centric but you can still get a house for $200-$300K there for now. Transit outside buses and trains is non existent atm but with the REM (rapid rail transit system) connecting the West Island to downtown expected to finish by 2024, there's another option. I will say though, you do have an advantage coming from the U.S, factoring the exchange values, I think you'll be fine here.
Private schools are a bit... odd. You have subsidized and unsubsidized private schools (in English and French). The waiting list is long and they don't admit many kids per year. Prices range from $6,000 to $14,000 a year depending on the area and the school ranking. The public school system in Quebec, although much better than the U.S, does need an overhaul though I will be honest. But if private school is not feasible, French public school is also a good alternative. On the bright side though, once your whole family becomes PR of Quebec, your kid will qualify for reduced post secondary tuition. For Cegep (college) tuition for PR of Quebec is free, they just have to pay fees, so about $170-$250 a semester. For university, a full time student will pay about $1,650 a semester. Montreal is a top ranked university city so, I know this is very long term, however this should be considered.
Canada and Quebec do offer a lot of amazing tax credits and benefits for raising a family, which are non-existent in the U.S.
So in a nutshell, a move to Montreal will be amazing for you and your family and I will 110% be welcoming all of you with open arms. I do work for the city (I'm just the typical bureaucrat.... for now ) however, I always love seeing people from elsewhere considering moving to Montreal. We're a fantastic city with a lot to offer and it is a great place to raise a family and to just live in period. Of course, lifestyle adjustments are needed and the first year or two will be a little bit rough. Just know there are plenty of resources available and people who are willing to help out and answer questions.
Also wanted to add that we would be renting an apartment when we got there and enjoying city life and the desire to buy a house would be a few years later (unless I found a great deal). How is life in Laval or the areas surrounding Montreal? Still awesome? I know Montreal has typical big city traffic, but how is the commute in general?
The burbs are the burbs. They definitely don't provide the same living environment as the central city.
Plus the suburbs around Montreal don't generally offer the nice small suburban town environment like you have in the Boston or Philadelphia (Main Line) areas. Though there are a few exceptions like St-Lambert but as you can imagine they are very expensive.
Inner city Montrealers deride suburbs like Laval a lot but there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with living in places like that: the housing in generally nice and the services are good (sometimes better than Montreal itself) but sure they generally don't have much charm.
Montrealers talk about living in Laval as though it was like being exiled on another planet, but there are relatively few barriers to enjoying most everything the city has to offer if you live in the burbs (especially the fairly close-in ones), if we're being honest.
Thank you all for your replies, this has been incredibly helpful. My wife and I know moving there is the right idea, it's just intimidating moving to a different country, learning a new language, and starting a new life - especially during a global pandemic! I'm going to share all this information with The Wife and we're going to start making our plans.
As I said, I'm working at an IT help desk right now. It's step 1 in starting a solid IT career. I figure in 2 years I'll have an associate's degree in Network Security as well as 2 years of experience, so that should make landing a decent job much easier. In the meantime we'll be learning French, saving our money, and trying to visit when we can.
edit: also we'll be moving there with one car, a Prius. So small and good gas mileage. That should help.
I hope that you know that you can't just move to live permanently in Montreal just like moving to any US city like Chicago, Miami, or Seattle. I assume that you are US citizens so you will have to apply for Canadian residence with that government who will consider your case and then approve or deny your request. Your move to Montreal is not guaranteed. I would work on this request first before seriously planning about living in Montreal.
I lived in Montreal for 10 years. It is indeed a great city with a lot to offer. Just be sure that the Canadian government lets you enjoy it.
Also I know there's some weirdness with getting an apartment on (I think) July 1st. What's the best time of year (financially) to move to Montreal?
Aiming for a July 1st move in means getting the most choice in apartments since such a large percentage turnover, but it's a huge city and you'll find plenty for rent at all times of year, if you want to move here in another time period you will be fine. Of course, do take the advice to focus on immigration, it's a long process and better to get a jump on it ahead of time.
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) however, I always love seeing people from elsewhere considering moving to Montreal. We're a fantastic city with a lot to offer and it is a great place to raise a family and to just live in period. Of course, lifestyle adjustments are needed and the first year or two will be a little bit rough. Just know there are plenty of resources available and people who are willing to help out and answer questions.
