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Well this is a province that drove every major bank headquarters in the country to jump ship for ontario in a span of about 10-15 years. So in the end this is small fries really.
It also looks like the last election results are driving some of the remaining anglos out...along with their money.
Of course who wouldn't want to trade in economic stability for that of language stability right? Ontario should actually send quebec a big thank you note for the countless billions that have probably come to ontario these past decades.
Nothing unites a group better than if you all feel you're the underdog and even better yet, one with an identifiable enemy to blame all of your shortcomings on.
Very true, in so many cases the world over. Victim mentality amongst groups is one of the most self-destructive mentalities there is.
Note that there's a big difference between being victimized and having a victim mentality. The former is a reaction to actual oppression. The latter is a cultural way of life, often one that is passed on through generations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geography Freak
French a dead language?
Anglo Canadians - Like ugly Americans...just duller.
Victim mentality amongst groups is one of the most self-destructive mentalities there is.
All things considered, I have a question for you. Where does such a victim mentality come from? It has its roots somewhere. It has to come from people feeling discriminated against. It is something to think about.
All things considered, I have a question for you. Where does such a victim mentality come from? It has its roots somewhere. It has to come from people feeling discriminated against. It is something to think about.
Yes but when that discrimination occurred in the past, and measures have been taken to correct it today, sometimes you need to get the hell over it.
Otherwise you're abiding by the mentality of "original sin" where the "oppressor" is forever tarred with their evils, and the "oppressed" can never, ever do any wrong, no matter how much the tables are turned, no matter how much things change. The "oppressor" can do no right, and the "oppressed" can do no wrong. Generational guilt on one hand and a wounded sense of entitlement on the other hand ensues.
As far as your statement that this past discrimination and oppression is "something to think about"; I don't need to think about it anymore. I am a university arts student. I am reminded of it and forced to think about it by what the professors and students talk about in class, every. single. day. There is absolutely no escaping the confronting of generational guilt for me. And personally, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any generational guilt for what my ancestors did (actually, not even my ancestors, just people who shared their skin color and/or language...actually my own ancestors have a pretty clean slate as far as being the perpetrators of any historical atrocities is concerned...in fact, one of my ancestors was rolled down a hill in a barrel lined with nails by Irish catholics for being a protestant in Ireland, where's my reparations?). I have plenty of personal guilt for mistakes I've made myself, but guilt for being white or Anglo? Never.
Last edited by Redrum237; 10-07-2012 at 07:59 AM..
All things considered, I have a question for you. Where does such a victim mentality come from? It has its roots somewhere. It has to come from people feeling discriminated against. It is something to think about.
While that might be true in history; at what point do you think it might be appropriate to leave the past in the past and begin to think forward? 200 years ago? 20 years ago? Tomorrow? Do we have to wait for another two hundred years of reverse discrimination to go by before both sides say enough already?
You also used the word "feeling" in your admonishment to provide something to think about so here's one right back at you. As an English speaking person in Quebec, for the last 3 decades I've been feeling discriminated against.
Am I correct to assume you will attribute the same consideration for MY plight as to those "others".
If one accepts the fact of discrimination actually being present in Quebec in the past; is one now to assume discrimination being practiced by the French speakers today is every bit as scurrilous or does it get a pass because they were first, and if so, what about the native populations that were before them?
While that might be true in history; at what point do you think it might be appropriate to leave the past in the past and begin to think forward? 200 years ago? 20 years ago? Tomorrow? Do we have to wait for another two hundred years of reverse discrimination to go by before both sides say enough already?
You also used the word "feeling" in your admonishment to provide something to think about so here's one right back at you. As an English speaking person in Quebec, for the last 3 decades I've been feeling discriminated against.
Am I correct to assume you will attribute the same consideration for MY plight as to those "others".
If one accepts the fact of discrimination actually being present in Quebec in the past; is one now to assume discrimination being practiced by the French speakers today is every bit as scurrilous or does it get a pass because they were first, and if so, what about the native populations that were before them?
You live in Quebec? I thought you lived in Ontario?
Yes but when that discrimination occurred in the past, and measures have been taken to correct it today, sometimes you need to get the hell over it.
Otherwise you're abiding by the mentality of "original sin" where the "oppressor" is forever tarred with their evils, and the "oppressed" can never, ever do any wrong, no matter how much the tables are turned, no matter how much things change. The "oppressor" can do no right, and the "oppressed" can do no wrong. Generational guilt on one hand and a wounded sense of entitlement on the other hand ensues.
As far as your statement that this past discrimination and oppression is "something to think about"; I don't need to think about it anymore. I am a university arts student. I am reminded of it and forced to think about it by what the professors and students talk about in class, every. single. day. There is absolutely no escaping the confronting of generational guilt for me. And personally, I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any generational guilt for what my ancestors did (actually, not even my ancestors, just people who shared their skin color and/or language...actually my own ancestors have a pretty clean slate as far as being the perpetrators of any historical atrocities is concerned...in fact, one of my ancestors was rolled down a hill in a barrel lined with nails by Irish catholics for being a protestant in Ireland, where's my reparations?). I have plenty of personal guilt for mistakes I've made myself, but guilt for being white or Anglo? Never.
I was asking where it came from because if you can answer that question, perhaps steps can be made to solve such issues.
It's much more complex than that. Most modern independence movements aren't really about revenge. It's not about - "we have to be independent because they did that crap to us way back when", it's more like "that crap that happened to us way back when is just one example of why we aren't made to share a country together".
The bad historical stuff is not the reason for independence, but it is evidence in favour of the theory of incompatibility.
The problem with that is that there probably isn't an ethnic group in the world who doesn't have a similar story. And what bugs me personally about the separatist movement in PQ is that a lot of the things brought up in those discussions are not unique to Quebec but Quebeckers always makes them sound like they are when they can be applied to pretty much any non native English-speaking group in Canada. History and politicians gave Quebec a special place in Canada but it is also not the only people who were promised a special place and had those promises broken.
That's why I am in favour of a strong centralist government and not in favour of more power to the provinces - in nations made up of many nations, I think there needs to be something at the top of the heap so that old prejudices and old arguments don't interfere in the whole of the country to the point where we end up like Yugoslavia. And I'm not buying the incompatibility argument at all - I think that's childish. Part of a community is a reasonable acceptance of each other's foibles.
Some compromises are made due to circumstances. English is the prominent language on this continent and in Europe whether one likes it or not. I do not agree with all of BruSan or Jambo's arguments, but in one post (long ago) BruSan made a point about how language and culture are not necessarily synonyms. I know far too many people who have retained their culture and their language after generations in Canada to buy the story about French being endangered if laws like Bill 101 didn't exist.
Now, that English Canada tried to eliminate languages that weren't English - that's true of all non-English immigrants and the aboriginal population. And that was not good, to be beaten for speaking your native language in the school yard. But I would really hope that today, with cultural awareness at a level it didn't used to be, that individuals would take on the responsibility of teaching their children about their culture.
On the other hand some of Jambo's and BruSan's arguments sound typical to me of many English Canadians' dismissive attitude towards all other cultures, as though they are irrelevant, or invalid somehow. In my home we speak Mennonite Low German as a matter of choice. Our language changes if we have guests who don't understand it. My culture is internalized and there is no law that can take it away or conversely, strengthen it.
I don't think a multitude of countries dividing themselves along old ethnic lines under the guise of 'incompatibility' would be a good thing at all - wars start because of the notion of 'us' versus 'the other,' something made even more problematic in a multicultural country like Canada. We've all got a sob story.
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