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aliss - Please recommend some towns/cities to check out! About 20 years ago we stayed in Quebec City for 2 weeks - we stayed in my sister-in-law's apartment - and we had a wonderful time.
I do not believe that life in Quebec is the same as life in France - in fact, I have never written that in any of my posts. I have asked people in this forum for information about cultural life in Quebec, not France. I have posted that our family would like to learn French - does this mean we want to live in France? I find this puzzling when the government of Quebec works extremely hard to have newcomers learn French. Is this a case, where even if you speak French you will not be accepted into the culture? I think the people of Quebec have to fight for the existence of their language - much like Iceland does. In Japanese there are 3 syllabi - kanji (Chinese characters), kana (phonetic alphabet), and katagana (alphabet for foreign words) - it is always clear what word is not a Japanese word. Also, the Ministry of Education has set a standard for the number of kanji that students need to learn. I have read that in Quebec there have been efforts to create French words for foreign words. Does the government set standards for the type of French that must be learned (French of Quebec vs. French of France)?
These threads should provide some insight into the highlighted question:
This is just my humble opinion, as an immigrant to QC myself, but if you are coming for the French/Quebecois experience, look outside Montreal. Montreal is different than the rest of Quebec - it is so diverse (which is fine) that one can get about in daily life without ever speaking French (aside from employment obviously). If you truly want to experience Quebecois life, look outside Montreal.
I have been to Montreal a billion times, but I live away, and I have travelled in rural Quebec. Two completely different worlds. Montreal, in comparison, was just like being back in Vancouver. Go outside Montreal, live outside Montreal, shop in stores/towns where nobody speaks English, where people celebrate Saint-Jean-Baptiste without a mention of Canada day, where people get excited to practice their English
I like your posts. I'd say that although the regions are more wholly French and homogenous, certainly for someone from the U.S., Montreal does offer a whole lotta French as well. There is that safety valve that is the bilingual and even anglo side of the city, but I'd say Montreal it still seems pretty French to someone from a non-francophone milieu.
I spent my formative years as a minority francophone in Ottawa and other parts of "English Canada", and compared to where I lived going to Montreal for me was like going to France.
aliss - Please recommend some towns/cities to check out! About 20 years ago we stayed in Quebec City for 2 weeks - we stayed in my sister-in-law's apartment - and we had a wonderful time.
Quebec City is the most beautiful city in this country, IMO. We stay there several times a year (MIL lives downtown). QC itself will provide you city life but also more immersion into the Quebecois culture than you would find in Montreal.
We live in rural Monteregie (a region south of MTL). Beautiful. Very Quebecois but close enough to commute to MTL if you want (albeit a cumbersome commute). I can go months without hearing English unless I visit the military base.
I like your posts. I'd say that although the regions are more wholly French and homogenous, certainly for someone from the U.S., Montreal does offer a whole lotta French as well. There is that safety valve that is the bilingual and even anglo side of the city, but I'd say Montreal it still seems pretty French to someone from a non-francophone milieu.
I spent my formative years as a minority francophone in Ottawa and other parts of "English Canada", and compared to where I lived going to Montreal for me was like going to France.
Fair enough, I can agree it felt "French" the first time I visited (being from Vancouver originally). It's just, I found it impossible to learn French when there because people would automatically use English with me (and speak in French to my husband, who is francophone), always giving English menus, etc. even if you ask otherwise. I go to Kim Phat market and clerks will only speak in English (before you even open your mouth...)
Is this a case, where even if you speak French you will not be accepted into the culture?
Not at all. My French is lower-intermediate (which IMO is not bad for only 1 year I think) and I have been very accepted and treated well. The Quebecois have a great appreciation for those who respect their culture and language. I think some die-hard anti-anglos are very LOUD but they are not the majority, nor even a noticeable minority, and they are the kind of people that would be against something else if they were born in another time and place.
Acajack - I checked out your link on who is French-Canadien. Fascinating! There's a tv show on geneology in the US called, "Who Do You Think You Are?" and the people who are researched find out surprising facts about their heritage. Is there a show like this in Canada? I just found this article, "The Genomic Heritage of French Canadians" Quebecois | Gene Expression | Discover Magazine and they note that:
"In all but one region, about 90% of gene pools were contributed by early French founders. In the eastern region where this contribution was 76%, we observed higher contributions of Acadians, British and American Loyalists...[our research methods] showed evidence of a distinct identity of the northeastern and eastern regions and stratification of the regional populations correlated with geographical location along the St-Lawrence River."
- I'm an American and I totally get what you mean about the politics. Someone trying to compare the massive cultural division of the US to the division of sovereigntist vs. federalist Quebecers doesn't get what you're talking about. Despite that division, I still feel like Quebec has a more singular, cohesive identity, simple because it is a smaller group of people. The PQ being elected would not = a referendum, and it is a shame so many people vote for the Liberal party just because they are afraid of a referendum, otherwise we could get some real progressive change happening without the fear of a referendum. Also, I want to put this out there, I don't think a referendum would happen, but I also don't think an independent Quebec would be the end of the world for us. The last referendum was about sovereignty-association, so worrying about things like needing a different passport, different military, new currency, etc., would not be an issue. The idea was to have an independent Quebec within Canada, sort of like how individual countries operate under the whole of the European Union. It's not like it would separate and become a totally foreign country overnight.
But back to partisan politics. The division in the US is deep. I think it cuts way deeper than the differences between people in Quebec. The north east of the United States and the deep south have totally different values, for example.
As for the thing about Montreal not being "that french". This sort of depends on where you go and how you approach it. If you live East of Papineau, it's gonna feel pretty french. Of course, if you stay downtown and in english/bilingual neighborhoods the whole time, then you can "get by in english". It's up to you.
As for the kind of french in quebec, in the schools, they are going to teach you international french, and then there are little sub-lessons on Quebec expressions, dialects, words, etc. The government does not set standards. In the school I went to (government funded), they taught international french.
- I'm an American and I totally get what you mean about the politics. Someone trying to compare the massive cultural division of the US to the division of sovereigntist vs. federalist Quebecers doesn't get what you're talking about. Despite that division, I still feel like Quebec has a more singular, cohesive identity, simple because it is a smaller group of people. The PQ being elected would not = a referendum, and it is a shame so many people vote for the Liberal party just because they are afraid of a referendum, otherwise we could get some real progressive change happening without the fear of a referendum. Also, I want to put this out there, I don't think a referendum would happen, but I also don't think an independent Quebec would be the end of the world for us. The last referendum was about sovereignty-association, so worrying about things like needing a different passport, different military, new currency, etc., would not be an issue. The idea was to have an independent Quebec within Canada, sort of like how individual countries operate under the whole of the European Union. It's not like it would separate and become a totally foreign country overnight.
But back to partisan politics. The division in the US is deep. I think it cuts way deeper than the differences between people in Quebec. The north east of the United States and the deep south have totally different values, for example.
As for the thing about Montreal not being "that french". This sort of depends on where you go and how you approach it. If you live East of Papineau, it's gonna feel pretty french. Of course, if you stay downtown and in english/bilingual neighborhoods the whole time, then you can "get by in english". It's up to you.
As for the kind of french in quebec, in the schools, they are going to teach you international french, and then there are little sub-lessons on Quebec expressions, dialects, words, etc. The government does not set standards. In the school I went to (government funded), they taught international french.
Regarding politics, I have heard from Americans that sometimes family members don't talk because of political differences, that people couldn't be friends or date the other side, etc. I don't know how widespread this is in the U.S., but you certainly don't have this type of division between sovereigists and federalists in Quebec. Everyone hangs out together regardless of their political views.
This forum has been extremely helpful! It has given us a lot to think about. We think our children would do best in a French immersion program because of their age. Unfortunately, this is not an option in Quebec. Therefore, we are now considering Ottawa because the school system there is similar to the US and there are opportunities to learn French. We think the location is good - Montreal is 1.5+ hours away and it is close to the border so we can visit with our relatives. It is not ideal, but we need to be realistic about their academic futures, not our fantasies. I am going to start a new thread on relocating to Ottawa. Thank you all for providing great information about Quebec - we look forward to the chance to travel around and learn about the culture!
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