Apple Valley/Rosemount bound...FT homebuyers (Minneapolis, St. Paul: renting, condos, low crime)

[peebah]

Hello everyone,
I just happen to stumble upon this forum. Great discussions and community. Me and my spouse are currently renting in Saint Paul area around Grand. It made sense while she worked downtown saint paul and I drove out to Eagan. Now we both work in eagan and considering buying our first home down in apple valley/ Rosemount area. Just recently married and are city dwellers. Idea of moving away from the city scares us a whole lot.
We are intereseted in newly built properties (1990-present). But do not want to consider condo/townhomes nor any community with association fees attached.
At one point we considered moving to Eagan but homes are built mostly in prior to 1990s.
Basically, we are looking to find out between rosemount and apple valley; which one gives us most of what we are looking for. Rosemount looks great for what we are looking for but all the new construction scares us a little bit. There is a good chance we would move again within next 5 years and it would be extremely difficult to compete with developers and other newly built properties in the area if we decide to sell.
With the budget of 300k and keeping resale value/competition within 5 years or so and proximity to the twin cities.. is our reluctance justified and should we consider just Apple Valley, even you get more bang for your buck in Rosemount.
I guess I am all over the place with this post but that just tells you our train of thought.. anyone has any advice for confused city dwellers who are scared move so far out of town?

[golfgal]

As you will find with any home sale/buy it all comes down to one buyer. If your house is priced right it will sell. The right price all depends on the buyer so for a possible future move, you just never know. You could buy in Eagan and find it harder to sell then in Rosemount or Apple Valley, again, you just never know.

Yes, there is a lot of construction in Rosemount but most of that construction is outside typical first time buyer price ranges so having a lower priced house in a nicer neighborhood is always a good thing. In the past year or so the only houses that have moved well are those under $350,000 or so. I think you will find that the smaller, less expensive houses are going to sell the best. Typically that price range you won't find new construction or if you do it is the top level of a split level house and if you can offer twice the square footage for the same price you will be more attractive to a buyer.

Personally I prefer Rosemount over Apple Valley, obviously since we chose to live her not long ago. I like the atmosphere of the town better, more down to earth people, the schools/programs offered are outstanding. The downtown area, although small, is being revitalized and will somewhat resemble the Grand Ave area when completed or at least that is the plan.

I was over in Apple Valley shopping today and cursing all the way because of the traffic, the spread out shopping areas, etc. I had to go to 3 different stores and they were all too far apart to walk from one to another and I don't like that.

[golfgal]

Oh, I am going to move this post over to the general MN board. You will get a lot more response that way and it fits there better.

[peebah]

Thanks for your advice golfgal. I guess, like any other first time home buyer.. we are little unsure of what is smart and practical decision if you've never dealt with a situation like this. So i appreciate any advice i get.
Personally, if up to me I would be living in Edina but houses there are out of my range and don't fit our ideal open floor modified 2 story layout. I consider that a perfect location for being close enough to the cities and yet doesnt carry much of a baggage that comes with living in the city or in the immediate suburbs.
Going back to Apple Valley and rosemount... I think AV has better proximity to things and places we like to be.. that is what most city-dwellers would, theater, coffee shops, diverse eateries, specialty food stores (whole food).. ethnic restuarants etc to name a few....
Rosemount does have more newer homes to offer and I've been able to find some 3Bed 2 Bth, MODST homes in 300-330k range.. which we are looking for. AV has some of those but are priced little higher than Rosemount.
I am just a little scared of Rosemount for 2 reasons....

1. Little faraway from the city life and has less activity....(even though closer to work in Eagan)
2. With so much construction, it will be a hard and competitive market to sell your home compared to Apple Valley in 5 years. Correct me if I am wrong in assuming that?

I guess I am just ignorant about Rosemount and wondering if I am worried for all the right reasons to pick it over Apple Valley?

[golfgal]

When you talk Apple Valley and Rosemount you are basically saying St. Paul or Highland Park, for the most part they are the same thing. The dividing line is a street and that is about all. Apple Valley doesn't have good eating spots, neither does Rosemount. You won't find a good variety of restaurants in the Apple Valley/Eagan/Rosemount/Lakeville area so that really won't factor into your decision. As far as ethnic foods/speciatly shops, you won't find those in Apple Valley either. Rosemount has a new theater and the Apple Valley theater is about 3 miles away.

The commute into St. Paul is actually easier from Rosemount then it is from Apple Valley because you can take Hwy 52 and avoid the 35 mess in St. Paul. Rosemount is also an easier commute to Eagan and Minneapolis mainly because you can avoid Cedar around the shopping center and all the traffic lights.

Rosemount has a lot of open land to the east of town however the majority of that will never be developed because it is owned by the refinery and is the 'buffer zone'. Again, there is a lot of planned development in Rosemount but you are still going to get more house for your money here, the offerings here vs Apple Valley are basically the same and it is an easier drive to pretty much every where in the Twin Cities.

As far as competitive market, I just don't see that being an issue in 5 years for the reasons I mentioned previously--the house you will be buying won't be in competition with the new construction. The majority of the new construction in Rosemount starts in the $450,000 range and goes up from there. If you are looking in the $300,000 range you will have an easy time to buy and most likely have an easy time to sell down the road.

[peebah]

Before I posted this thread I was leaning more towards Apple Valley over Rosemount with Eagan trailing farback... But now thanks to Golfgal i am officially split between Rosemount and Apple Valley!
Are there no Eagan or Apple Valley fans here? ...
But I do feel more informed about Rosemount, which i had none to begin with....

[Robert P Stewart]

I've sold a lot of homes in all three areas - Golfgal is right... Rosemount is a wonderful town. Your dollar WILL go further there. As far as resale? I think you're spot on for Rosemount again. If you can stand the Irish, you'll have it made!

Robert

[AVguy]

I guess that I will be the Apple Valley representative on this thread. For the most part I agree with what Golfgal has written, but I do have a different take on some issues. I have only lived in Apple Valley for a year after living in downtown Minneapolis for a year.

First, as it relates to housing, you do have to be careful when it comes to anticipating appreciation on housing. A year ago when my wife and I were looking for housing, we were often told that outer suburbs had more room for appreciation because the closer suburbs had already appreciated more. The assumption here is that the outer suburbs will eventually catch up to the inner suburbs. One example in particular was when we were looking at similar new housing developments in Eden Prairie and Shakopee. The salespeople in Shakopee said that they were expecting Shakopee to become the "next Eden Prairie." If you are familiar with that area you will understand how outlandish that claim is. The moral of the story is that people will always pay more to be near shopping, schools, employment, recreation, etc. For example, Edina housing appreciation will always outpace adjoining areas of Hopkins and St. Louis Park because of location. Likewise, in the long run, the suburbs that are closer to the action will be worth more than the suburbs that are far away from the action. I don't know if Apple Valley is 'closer to the action' than Rosemount, but we find it more convenient to live closer to the shopping in Apple Valley and be closer to major highways.

Second, as far as transportation is concerned, I would say that travel times are comparable between Apple Valley and Rosemount. Given that you be at work or commuting during the heaviest traffic, I do not think that Highway 77 (Cedar Ave.) or 35E would be a problem for you when you travel at night or on the weekends. Most of Rosemount is further away from divided highways than Apple Valley, which means that you have to drive through more lights before hitting the highways. Yes, Highway 77 gets backed up during rush hour, but during non-rush traffic I can make it to downtown Minneapolis in under 30 minutes and St. Paul in under 25 minutes because I do live close to the freeways. Correct me if I'm wrong, Golfgal, but I don't think that this is true of Rosemount. But we're talking 5-10 minutes during your weekend trips, so this may be of no concern to you.

Another thing to consider with transportation is your daily commute. You will be making the commute twice every work day and perhaps that extra 5-10 minutes will add up. Because both Apple Valley and Rosemount border Eagan, both have many routes into Eagan. Personally, I think that the easiest commute from Apple Valley into Eagan is via Pilot Knob Rd. Johnny Cake Ridge Rd. is another easy route if you are working in NW Eagan. I also would not discount taking Highway 77 to 35E to get into Eagan if you are looking at the western side of Apple Valley. You can avoid the lights many of the lights getting on to Highway 77 if you stay north of County Road 42. And I don't think that 35E would be much of a mess for you during the work week. I have only experienced significant slowdowns on 35E starting after the Pilot Knob/Yankee Doodle interchanges and 35E is a 70 mph road. Rosemount has other roads into Eagan, such as Highway 3 (Robert Trail), which is very industrial and feels rural on some stretches.

Finally, with all that being written, Rosemount might still be the right answer for you. I agree that you will get more bang for your buck in Rosemount. If getting a larger house is your main reason for moving to the suburbs, I suggest looking at housing in Farmington as well. Farmington is only another 5-10 minutes south of Apple Valley on Pilot Knob and has room for appreciation. If price were no issue, we would also live in the Edina area because it is close to everything and has walkable shopping districts. Personally, Apple Valley feels far enough from the core cities that we will probably not live any further away than here. We liked Eagan but found that it was too expensive for us when buying our first home.

Regarding your apprehension about moving to the 'burbs, you will probably find that the suburbs are completely different from St. Paul (especially when compared to the Grand area) and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You will be in your car more, but many ammenities will be closer. If you don't have kids, and it does not sound as though you do, you will notice that most things are tailored for kids. The restaurant choices are lacking, as Golfgal wrote, but there are some decent restaurants. Apple Valley has more restaurant choices than Rosemount but they are mostly family-style restaurants. I suggest going to Enjoy! in Apple Valley for a taste of fine dining in the suburbs. (Golfgal, how are those restaurants/bars off of Robert Trail north of County Road 42?) There is really nothing to fear in the suburbs; yes, it is more politically conservative, and I would characterize Apple Valley as more "purple" than Rosemount, but the south suburbs are a part of the Twin Cities just as much as Minneapolis and St. Paul are.

To the original poster, do you have any additional thoughts? Have you visited either Apple Valley or Rosemount yet?

[Disclaimer: If anything that I wrote about sounded adversarial, I really do not intend for it to come off that way. I just wanted to throw out some other things to consider. Golfgal and Robert P Stewart are valuable members of this board and have great knowledge of this side of town.]

[peebah]

Thanks AVguy... Thanks for drawing a picture from other side of the fence. Knowing that you sort of went through the same ordeal, its kind of re-assuring.
Most of your assumptions are correct as far as having no kids and such. I am a very metropolitan kind of person. Lived in Chicago before went to school up in St. Cloud.
Strangely St. CLoud didnt bother too much since campus towns usually have a life of their own and you dont feel such a disconnect to all the "happening" places.
Now here in Minneapolis, I've lived around the uptown area and for the past 3 years been living in Saint Paul, which i hated at first moving away from such an eclectic spot (Uptown area) but eventually grew into liking it over time.

Being an IT professional, I also feel that Edina/Eden Prairie are probably the more attractive outside of MSP as far as the job prospects go. But that is something not on the horizon here.

I am more inclined to buy home for better investment and appreciation than anything. Choosing AV/Rosemount/Eagan is sort of natural for that reason. Good school district, low crime rate, closer to work but away from all the things a city-dwellers would care for.

I think Eagan is great, due to proximity to MSP, all the goodness you get being a homeowner in AV/Rosemount area (good school DST, low crimes etc), closer to work but you wont get as much for your money and relatively less option for newly built homes in our price range.

Apple Valley and Rosemount is a logical choice in that case for all the same reason plus better value for the money except its out farther.... Also, I havent looked any farther out in Farmington or Lakeville area probably because I dont know if we can move any farther away from the city. But as far as wise investemnt goes, would you prefer Apple Valley over Rosemount and Eagan if you are counting on appreciation?

On a sidenote, does anyone know if city of AV has any plans for the huge sand and gravel area past 42 and Flagstaff? Should that be of concern if you are shipping for home in that area, with so many condos and TH?

[golfgal]

AV-the only correction I would say is the travel times-15 minutes to downtown St. Paul via 52 from Rosemount, I can make Minneapolis in 30 minutes from the very southern part of Rosemount at around 8:00 AM via Diamond Path to McAndrews to Cedar to Crosstown to 35W and about 20-25 minutes with no traffic. There are fewer lights coming from Rosemount then Apple Valley and MUCH less traffic which is really the key for the difference from Rosemount and Apple Valley--MUCH less traffic. It can take 20 minutes to get from 160th to 140th in Apple Valley some days .

Peebah--the gravel pit as far as I know is not really an issue. There is one in Rosemount too and the old one that was there is now a housing development with most of the houses being $600,000+ all right across from the existing gravel pit. I drive by there frequently and hear no noise at all.

Most of Eagan/Apple Valley and all of Rosemount are all district 196 and for the most part the schools are very comparable. It comes down to what your kids are interested in doing where they end up going to school but since you don't have kids that isn't a concern now.