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I don't doubt that Transplant had the bad experience they wrote about. However, I would be interested to know what part of the Twin Cities they lived in, because I really think that it varies from area to area. I live in the city and have been fortunate to meet a wide range of people from many parts of the country and world. My wife and I like to socialize and we enjoy socializing with a wide range of people. But of course, with kids and kids sports events, we aren't able to socialize as much as we used to.
I guess my point would be, I don't doubt that there may be a higher proportion of the Twin Cities population that has well-established social networks and so people aren't actively looking for new friends, but I also recognize that the twin Cities are a huge metro area and there are lots of families out there who do like to socialize.
Also, I think you're way off with your weather analysis!
"It gets cold (typical winter day is 0 to (–)something!) right after T-day and finally warms up (i.e. above 40) in April. It is long, the days are short, and city-wide depression sets in – forget meeting anyone between these months – people barely socialize in the winter"
It sounds like your attempts to find friends have come to dead ends because you're trying with the wrong people. If you don't like to talk about sports or cabins then why not concentrate on meeting people who DO share your interests? Plenty of people living in Minnesota (both those born in the state and those from elsewhere) have no interest in sports, don't own cabins, and do have a strong interest in national topics. If you haven't come across them then you aren't looking in the right places. My Twin Cities conversations rarely, if ever, relate to local sports, for example, and while I have an interest in local topics, there's no reason one can't be interested in both local and national/international events. If you're having boring conversations about boring topics then find some people who share your interests. You're living in a big metro area, not some tiny town in the middle of nowhere: you have a big pool of potential friends to choose from. But you're not going to meet them if you don't leave the house because it's too cold.
I realize that different regions have different quirks to them, but when it comes down to it finding friends really isn't that different in MN than it is anywhere else. If you're not meeting people who share your interests than try looking somewhere new.
I'd like to point out that you will indeed find similar complaints (admittedly not called "Minnesota" though -- they have their own regional names for it!) in most locations. I found it easier to make friends in LA than anywhere else I've lived, for example, but there are plenty of people on that forum who go online to complain about how unfriendly everyone there is compared to everywhere else they've ever lived. I think it's a general American society issue, perhaps made worse in towns where there aren't a lot of people moving in or out, not a state-specific problem.
I find this to be very true. As someone who grew up here and then spent 11 years in Phoenix, I can say that it's less about "Minnesota Nice" than it is with each specific person having problems.
And I am NOT trying to say that Transplant is not friendly or brought it on; I'm sure she didn't. I'm just saying that it isn't a good fit for her here. There is no place that is perfect for everyone and if you find yourself in an area that isn't right for you (as I now feel about the Twin Cities), it's easy to see those differences as somewhat hostile.
I think the Twin Cities are a great place, I just no longer feel at home here and think it's mainly a bad fit between my family and most of the people who live here now. Does that mean they are unfriendly or hostile towards me? No. Does that mean I'm unfriendly or hostile towards them? Nope. It's just not a good fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplant5126
west336: in my experience, it is not a big deal if a Minnesotan gripes about Minnesota but if a transplant does, the attitude is "well, then leave." And by gripe, I mean a comment on the cold weather.
Now THAT is true! It's like you can't live here if you admit the weather sucks - and it does suck!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplant5126
And no I do not share these thoughts with the people I meet -- I act Minnesotan -- nice to their face and then talk about it behind their back to my husband.
Well, that sounds like you've got Minnesota Nice down to a "T"!
That's what I've always thought Minnesota Nice was and I grew up here. People are very nice and polite to your face (confrontation is not something that Minnesotans seem to be fans of), but then they'll talk behind your back.
They're also very nice to complete strangers, which is actually very nice. It's just nicer to be out and about when people are polite than when they're not, so I'm a fan of that part, at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN55
The thing is, you are pretty much dead on.
Conversations typically are about:
-50% weather
-25% when you're going up north next
-20% Twins/Vikings/Golf
-5% How the local High School/Youth hockey teams are doing
Not that I mind it, I absolutely love Minnesota. You got a pretty good handle down on 95% of Minnesotans. We like it and aren't changing. You don't. Move.
(That's my east-coast impression of being blunt. Basically the above person is correct. MN is a great place for others and not as good for others. It obviosuly isn't your kind of place. It has less to do with the people here being wrong and more to do with the fact that you're just in the wrong place for you)
Yes, I certainly wasn't trying to imply that Transplant hasn't been friendly or hasn't tried hard either, but given her experiences it sounds like she's just run into some bad luck. And if she really doesn't like the weather that much and it is keeping her at home, rather than going out, then she might be better off somewhere else. (not that people have to enjoy the cold -- lots of us don't! -- but if it's leading to a decline in quality of life that's certainly a reason to consider other options.)
I've been thinking about this a bit more, and I also noticed that she said they moved here with high expectations; I don't know about their specific experiences, but I know in the LA forum the people who seem to hate LA the most are the ones who moved there with the highest hopes. Sometimes it just gets too easy to blame the location for problems, when the answer is something else. That doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with the person who doesn't feel at home or isn't making friends; it could just be luck of the draw. Thinking back to places we've lived it's been easiest when I've worked with people I like. They were sort of an instant "in," a group of people who made me feel at home while I got used to a place and developed an additional network of friends and acquaintances. It can take time to meet new people and to develop friendships, although I still stand by my earlier stance where if she's having trouble finding people with an interest in topics other than local sports or the weather then she's not looking in the right place for friends. And I also think MplsTodd has a good point, too; I also firmly believe that it varies by area, and do think it's easier in some parts of the Twin Cities than others.
I think what the OP is getting at is the fakeness that comes with MN nice. You can still be honest and straight-forward about your opinions without having to be rude or abrasive. For instance, when someone asks for my opinion, I usually try to preface my response with "you'd like my honest opinion?". That doesn't mean that I'm going to be nasty, but I am going to tell them if I do or don't like something. I'm not going to butter up to people when they are asking me for my honest feedback. And just because they are asking, doesn't mean they have to do anything with it.
I have found one of the biggest problems with this and children is that children learn that they can't be honest and respectful at the same time. I remember growing up here as an older child and I observed that friends often could not be up front with each other, and instead resorted to bad mouthing. I moved here from the east coast, and I had hardly observed that from anyone (except the one or two kids who really were mean).
I do have to agree, MN nice isn't what it seems, or at least in some areas of the Twin Cities. I'm in my early twenties, born and raised here. I find a lot of people in the area I live to be unfriendly, if you haven't known their "family" for the last three generations, then you shouldn't really talk to them. I've never had a problem making friends in any other state or country I've been in. Heck, I made more friends on vacation than I would in one year of college! It really depends on where you live, what you like, and how you treat others as well. The truth hurts, so as long as you aren't TOO blunt, or too rude, or TOO truthful when you know the person can't handle it, then it's best to just keep it to yourself.
I hope you can find peace with your decision either way!
Maybe I'm the one who is out of touch, but how many people have family who have lived in the Twin Cities for three generations? Many, but certainly not all, of my MN friends were born in the state, but I'd also guess that the majority of them have parents from other states or countries. I'm only guessing because I know they have cousins and grandparents in other places; otherwise where one's family comes from doesn't usually come up a lot in regular conversation. Once you live in MN you eventually become a Minnesotan, whether you consider yourself one or not.
I still think there must be variations within Minnesota or even the Twin Cities itself, because Texas2010's experiences are pretty different than mine. Or maybe because my parents didn't grow up in MN those people just never spoke to me? I guess if that was the case I never noticed or cared.
I do agree that in general Minnesotans aren't blunt. That doesn't mean fake, though, just means that people often either don't mention stuff they don't like (in the lines of "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all"), or if it is bugging them then they can be long-winded about it. I can usually do that dance, too, and it's come in quite handy when dealing with difficult work situations (this goes for places far from MN, too); I've often been the one drafted for coming up with the wording for how to tell someone something unpleasant but in a nice way that won't leave them putting the blame on us. Not "this is the dumbest idea you've come up with yet," but rather "it's an intriguing concept, but I don't think it will work for us at this time." The old "it's not you, it's us" style of things. Now some people might well prefer the bluntness (it certainly is efficient and to the point), but once you know the "code" both are essentially saying the same thing. I don't think it's good or bad, although it might take some getting used to if you're accustomed to more direct conversations. I don't consider that to be fake; fake would "That's a great idea. Let's do that." when you have absolutely no intention of doing so.
This Minnesotan has had family in St. Paul for four generations and family on the Iron Range for six. Certainly not all Minnesotans have those long of roots but it's much more common here than most places except for maybe like New England.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN55
This Minnesotan has had family in St. Paul for four generations and family on the Iron Range for six. Certainly not all Minnesotans have those long of roots but it's much more common here than most places except for maybe like New England.
Except for the core cities and a few suburban exceptions (Hopkins), the Twin Cities metro has only been around for a couple of generations.
My parents live in an "older" area of Minnetonka built around 1960, so everyone living there initially was a transplant of sorts.
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