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That is exactly what a light rail service offers, stops every mile or two. Have you ridden the light rail we have? I am sure, given the choice, most people would take the light rail from suburb to suburb if it connected near their home to near their office. And yes, we do have door to door bus service if you want it in town. We also have taxis if you want to throw those into the argument too, but what we really have is a small town with lots and lots of bike paths and sidewalks and no scary intersections to cross making our town just as "walkable" as Minneapolis.
Actually, you don't have door-to-door service; you keep repeating that, so I recently called and asked. They offer flex service (or something like that), but it's very limited. They don't offer public transportation taxi service. And apparently we have different opinions on what makes a "scary" intersection. To each his own.
In any case, the light rail goes much farther than 1.2 miles; it is not designed solely for the needs of a small number of people going such a small distance. It's great if it works for them, but you need to have enough ridership to justify such a cost. 600 people who may or may not be willing to take it is not enough. Better to run a bus, or better yet, focus on maintaining the sidewalks and walking/biking paths (and making sure buildings are equipped with ample bike racks) for those commuters. Rosemount actually has a a city-wide biking and pedestrian plan, which should be applauded. The plan, by the way, says that 48% of your residents travel more than 10 miles to work (and less than 1/5 of kids who live within walking distance to school walk, citing dangerous intersections as one of the top reasons as the reason they didn't); 24% live within five miles of work (not bad!), yet less than 2% commute by bike or walk even one day of the week. The plan also notes that car ownership is a must for most people. So while you may feel that Rosemount is perfect just the way it is, many planners and community members feel otherwise. If it was me, I'd think that was an excellent thing -- there's ALWAYS room for improvement, and thanks to these forward-thinking people we may actually eventually see far more people walking and biking for their local errands and commutes. Rosemount is also doing work to revitalize the downtown and encourage the concentration of businesses and amenities there, which I think is also a good step. In other words, they are actively and explicitly trying to turn back the tides of, as they put it, "more than 50 years of automobile dominated culture". I assume you've read the plan, but if not, it makes interesting reading and is available online.
Minneapolis also has a plan, for which I am grateful. I think incorporating walking and biking into the larger transportation picture should be a priority. So often the discussion is just about cars and buses/trains.
I'd like to think that people would take light rail from suburb to suburb if offered the choice, and I'm sure the numbers WOULD be higher than existing bus service, but why, then, do so few take existing public transportation options? What's the incentive to make the switch? If a Rosemount-Apple Valley line was part of a bigger picture, and perhaps connected more areas with more density in terms of both jobs and residents, then maybe we can start to make some justification for building rail. I do sometimes believe in the power of "build it and they will come," but we're also working with limited resources here. There's got to be some reason to believe that the numbers will justify the costs. Work on building up the density and concentrating the job centers in Rosemount and in Apple Valley (and in other area suburbs) and then maybe you can start justifying more suburb-to-suburb lines.
They been really successful in Portland so i can see em doing great here
If the plan for the Southwest LRT is to bypass the heart of uptown, then I really hope it's because a streetcar connection between the West Lake station through the heart of Uptown and on to downtown is in the works.
If the plan for the Southwest LRT is to bypass the heart of uptown, then I really hope it's because a streetcar connection between the West Lake station through the heart of Uptown and on to downtown is in the works.
Love the idea of a streetcar on Lake Street, connecting the Hiawatha with the Southwest. It would really help Uptown in terms of apartments booms, downtown connections, and great accessibility to urban recreation along the Chain of Lakes.
Love the idea of a streetcar on Lake Street, connecting the Hiawatha with the Southwest. It would really help Uptown in terms of apartments booms, downtown connections, and great accessibility to urban recreation along the Chain of Lakes.
The problem is that it won't help with downtown connections; the real need is for a way to get people more easily to downtown, and the proposed streetcar line completely sidetracks that (it just runs up and down the Greenway and doesn't go anywhere near downtown). I like the idea of better transit up and down Lake (and continuing to improve that as a corridor), but currently it can be a nightmare to get from Uptown or Lyn-Lake to downtown; the buses are always crowded, the streets are congested, and the bus bumps along at slow speed from stop to stop. Granted, driving in that stretch is probably not much better, but that's all the more reason to work on improving Uptown-downtown transportation connections. The demand is there, so it's very sad to see it cut out of the SW Corridor route. That route wouldn't have helped everyone, but it would have served thousands of people near the proposed stations as well as people from elsewhere in the metro area who work or like to visit the Uptown/Lyn-Lake/Whittier neighborhoods. They'll still be able to do that via public transportation, but as far as easy access from downtown, that will still be via bus, at least for now. And for many visitors, that additional transfer point (between LRT and streetcar) will probably make it that much easier to just decide to drive.
Also, not even in your beloved Minneapolis are people able to walk 5 blocks to get everything they need. If that were the case, there would be no traffic in Minneapolis, ever.
Really? Because for years I've been able to get all my usual errands done by just walking a few blocks or so. Might the random unusual thing make me go out of my way and are there spots in Minneapolis where this is more difficult? Sure. But there are many spots in Minneapolis where it's fairly easy (eg, many parts of downtown, uptown, areas around the university)
Quote:
Originally Posted by homiej
The LRT is more about the future and less about the present.
Thank you! I feel like this is what people keep missing. Our limited resources shouldn't be allocated pandering to the ways of the past; they should be used to create the best future we can. The car-centered lifestyle needs to die off if we are to have any hope of creating sustainable, livable communities.
They been really successful in Portland so i can see em doing great here
I really hope I stick around Minneapolis long enough to see this happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by northsub
Out of curiosity, would people be okay with a situation for the Twin Cities that involved no new land developed, relatively even density throughout the developed land, and basically everyone living within a couple of miles of their work and appropriate shopping?
Generally speaking, I'd be ok with something like that if it includes decent mass transit options to get around the area when needed.
What I think would be good that one might broadly consider in a similar vain to this would be Minneapolis and St. Paul combining into one city entity and annexing all the inner most suburbs. This would expand the tax base, make projects that benefit the whole core urban center easier, and should create a lot more density in places like St. Louis Park. I have no delusions of this ever happening, but I think it would be good if it did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
PEOPLE DO LIVE BY WHERE THEY WORK
If it's not walkable, it's not close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal
That is exactly what a light rail service offers, stops every mile or two.
People who ride transit for one stop (or anything less than 10 blocks, really*) are a big pet peeve. Just walk!
*Not including people who have health issues or if it's really, really crappy weather outside, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
The problem is that it won't help with downtown connections; the real need is for a way to get people more easily to downtown, and the proposed streetcar line completely sidetracks that (it just runs up and down the Greenway and doesn't go anywhere near downtown). I like the idea of better transit up and down Lake (and continuing to improve that as a corridor), but currently it can be a nightmare to get from Uptown or Lyn-Lake to downtown; the buses are always crowded, the streets are congested, and the bus bumps along at slow speed from stop to stop. Granted, driving in that stretch is probably not much better, but that's all the more reason to work on improving Uptown-downtown transportation connections. The demand is there, so it's very sad to see it cut out of the SW Corridor route. That route wouldn't have helped everyone, but it would have served thousands of people near the proposed stations as well as people from elsewhere in the metro area who work or like to visit the Uptown/Lyn-Lake/Whittier neighborhoods. They'll still be able to do that via public transportation, but as far as easy access from downtown, that will still be via bus, at least for now. And for many visitors, that additional transfer point (between LRT and streetcar) will probably make it that much easier to just decide to drive.
Hennepin, Lyndale, Nicollet, Chicago and Lake are all primed for street cars. An East-West line along Lake that connects with lines that run into downtown along those streets would work really well, I think. The Lake line would connect the light rails and the others would help the corridors leading into downtown.
No, that was exactly my point, most jobs in the Twin Cities are NOT in Minneapolis and they are in the suburbs and that 90% of the population of the Twin Cities live in the suburbs yet everyone thinks that all transportation should be about getting people into Minneapolis and that is just not how people live here. We are not talking about Chicago or New York because they are the business centers in those areas but Minneapolis has less then 10% of the jobs in the Twin Cities area. It is not the business center which is the point.
Chicago and New York's central transit hubs are also not the only economic hubs of those regions.
You're saying the same thing I am, just not getting the point that you need a focal hub to efficiently move people. Also, public trans is used for MUCH more than commuting to work. It's used for attending sports events, cultural events, eating at restaurants, visiting friends, etc.
Also, you have to focus on the lifestyle and accessibility TO these transit lines. Minneapolis is dense. You're not gonna have the demand in Maple Grove or Minnetonka.
Minneapolis is the best place in the metro for a rail hub. Also, consider the fact that it could link up to the Metro Transit bus system, Greyhound, airport, and Amtrak.
Chicago and New York's central transit hubs are also not the only economic hubs of those regions.
You're saying the same thing I am, just not getting the point that you need a focal hub to efficiently move people. Also, public trans is used for MUCH more than commuting to work. It's used for attending sports events, cultural events, eating at restaurants, visiting friends, etc.
Also, you have to focus on the lifestyle and accessibility TO these transit lines. Minneapolis is dense. You're not gonna have the demand in Maple Grove or Minnetonka.
Minneapolis is the best place in the metro for a rail hub. Also, consider the fact that it could link up to the Metro Transit bus system, Greyhound, airport, and Amtrak.
The airport is in Bloomington and Amtrak is in St. Paul...
Actually, you don't have door-to-door service; you keep repeating that, so I recently called and asked. They offer flex service (or something like that), but it's very limited. They don't offer public transportation taxi service. And apparently we have different opinions on what makes a "scary" intersection. To each his own.
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Well, I guess I need to tell the little old ladies getting off the bus at the grocery store that their bus service doesn't exist or the kids that are getting picked up at school that their taxi service doesn't exist or when I see a taxi driving down the street that it's just pretend .
Well, I guess I need to tell the little old ladies getting off the bus at the grocery store that their bus service doesn't exist or the kids that are getting picked up at school that their taxi service doesn't exist or when I see a taxi driving down the street that it's just pretend .
Yes, some do. Many get picked up to take them to the U of M for PSEO classes.
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