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If anyone is interested in finding indepth assessments regarding the quality of education in a particular Minneapolis Public School, the School Quality Reviews (http://www.mpls.k12.mn.us/uploads/faq_school_quality_reviews.pdf - broken link) conducted by Cambridge Education (released at the end of 2009- completed for all Minneapolis Public Schools) are a pretty phenomenal resource to get an unbiased insight into a school's educational strengths/areas for improvement in six main domain areas- if I were looking for schools for a child (and when I do someday), I would give much more credence to these comprehensive reviews versus basic test scores or hype. The reviews are all generally posted on each school's website, although I had a harder time finding them on area high schools' websites.
After providing a school overview and overall evaluation of performance, from what I can tell there are four primary ratings given to each of the six domain areas (with my interpretations of them in parenthesis):
Domain area "fully meets expectations" (the highest rating, comprable to an 'exceeds all expectations' and doesn't seem to be given out very often for even very high-performing schools)
Domain area "meets expectations in most key areas but requires continued monitoring and support" (I would view this as a 'satisfactory' to 'high satisfactory'- 'good' rating)
Domain area "does not meet expectations in many key areas and requires additional support" (e.g. OK to low satisfactory in some areas but not acceptable in others).
Domain area "does not meet expectations and requires significant support" (e.g. not acceptable performance).
I applaud the MPS' commitment to conducting these analyses and transparency in posting the information publicly.
Also, being the local neighborhood/diversity cheerleader (/gloater) that I am, and having always heard that Lake Harriet Community School is the best elementary with the highest test scores in the metropolitan area (which I think technically it does have), I was of course happy to see that Loring School in Victory Neighborhood's report received the highest rating in four of six categories (with the second highest rating in the other two) compared to Lake Harriet in SW Mpls getting the highest rating in only two of six categories (with the second highest rating in the other four). Lake Harriet's report was still of course extremely positive (and it still of course is one of the best elementaries in the metro), but it was nice to see this level of validation for Loring considering its significantly higher level of diversity and low-income student population:
^You'll be happy to hear, then, that I drove my wife to the Victory area yesterday and she LOVES the homes around there. She then asked about the school district but I didn't know -- but now maybe I do. Thanks!!
I don't think so- might be a good project for one of us city-data-ers for someone that has a lot of time on their hands! (although I haven't found a website that shows comprehensive listings of all SQR reports, and some schools don't seem to make theirs readily available).
And yes, the enchanting "Storybook" cottage revival/bungalow homes of the Victory Neighborhood tend to draw people up here- I was going to actually mention in your other thread to not feel limited to South/SW Mpls- there are so many great areas here in the city that are pretty affordable and it's best to find the one that has the best feel to you before settling on any. Let me know (either on your thread or via DM) if you have questions about Victory or the Northside (whether neighborhood, schools, etc.), or if you'd like me to send you a list of realtors that specialize in this part of town and/or live up here. Good luck with your search-
We're a ways away from home ownership, but I'll keep that in the back of my mind -- thanks!
The major thing keeping us from going Northside is the schools, but I'm also not familiar with the area at all. What is the nearest recreational lake, for instance? The good thing about SW is that you have the two major city lakes right there and some awesome neighborhood eateries and retail districts. Plus, although crime in Victory isn't a problem now, could it become a problem in the near future? It's sort of surrounded by lower income areas...
We're a ways away from home ownership, but I'll keep that in the back of my mind -- thanks!
The major thing keeping us from going Northside is the schools, but I'm also not familiar with the area at all. What is the nearest recreational lake, for instance? The good thing about SW is that you have the two major city lakes right there and some awesome neighborhood eateries and retail districts. Plus, although crime in Victory isn't a problem now, could it become a problem in the near future? It's sort of surrounded by lower income areas...
Henry HS is pretty strong with one of the best IB programs in the metro area- a number of their IB grads get Gates scholarships (I believe they've had the highest number of the local high schools) and go to Ivy Leagues. Both Henry and Loring are both great all-around schools- they are VERY diverse, racially/ethnically/socioeconomically, and some parents unfortunately aren't comfortable with these high levels of diversity (e.g. white students in the minority)- they're also not going to exhibit the same average test scores as SW Mpls or suburban high schools, but to me (someone that comes from a family of educators/has worked in the past in educational systems) those numbers are meaningless anyways and don't reflect the true quality of a school's education.
As for middle schools- Olson is one that serves the local area, and I believe they are or have already developed a Middle Years IB program but am not 100% sure- the reviews I've heard from folks on Olson are a lot more mixed than Loring or Henry, but I have no personal knowledge myself so can't comment much. A lot of other families take advantage of FAIR schools (Victory is closest Mpls neighborhood to the Crystal location, some go downtown as well), and others send to Robbinsdale district or to De La Salle (Catholic High School) on Nicollet Island.
There is a lake in Victory Neighborhood (Ryan Lake)- although I wouldn't deem it a "recreational lake", it's a small peaceful little lake with a dock, a shoreline that the neighborhood assn has been working to restore, and eventually will be connected by trails to the Victory Dog Park & Prairie area. A nice scenic lake but small with no swimming. Crystal Lake in Robbinsdale is only a few blocks away from most of the western portions of the Victory Neighborhood- Crystal Lake has trails, fishing dock, and significant park space all around it in addition to annual events like fireworks displays, etc. The parkway is an awesome amenity with tons of green space, and it connects by trails to both Theo Wirth (which also has a lake) to the South and Webber Park/North Mississippi Regional to the east.
Regarding eateries- Victory 44 was named "Best Neighborhood Restaurant" by City Pages this year, its next door neighbor Steamworks Coffee & Tea Co received the "Best Coffee" in past years. Papa's Restaurant & Deli has been named the "Best Cheesesteak" in the metro and has great pizzas, gelato, and a deli area; and Emily's F & M Cafe is a local fixture for great breakfasts/lunches on the cheap (old school greasy breakfast diner/eatery with Italian ownership). All of the above locally-owned/neighborhood establishments are on the 44th/Penn Aves N business node in Victory, with the exception of Papa's on 42nd/Thomas. For other eateries/restaurants, Robbinsdale's downtown seems to be having a renaissance these days (some local Strib articles have covered this lately- the redevelopment of their downtown I guess has been occurring over a few decades), and depending where you're at in Victory and if you're not adverse to longer walks- this area can be "walkable" from the neighborhood. There are a number of other establishing or not-so-well known eateries on the Northside that we have been enjoying as of late- 42nd Avenue Station, Milda's Cafe, and others. So, things definitely are not on the scale of places like SW Mpls, but if you like tight-knit community/neighborhood-y feel on a smaller scale, there are some great options around here.
Regarding crime- it's always surprising to hear these concerns about Victory when you never hear them about very upscale/expensive areas like Bryn Mawr and Golden Valley that are directly adjacent to areas with higher concentrations of crime than what you find up here. Victory is somewhat tucked away and doesn't really touch any high-crime areas (its borders are either surrounded by green space and/or nice stretches of blocks of surrounding neighborhoods)- the neighborhoods it most shares its border with (Shingle Creek, Cleveland, suburb of Robbinsdale, and 42-4500 blocks of Webber-Camden) are all pretty low-crime areas of the Northside. That's not to say that it's not still a city neighborhood that does see crime, the ocassional burglaries or problem property, and/or that there isn't some serious crime a stone's throw away (and infrequently within the neighborhood itself)- but if you've ever lived in another city/urban environment, you'll likely find it deafiningly quiet here.
If you're worried about trends, if anything it seems to be increasingly becoming a haven for younger couples/families to move to recent years (seems like I'm seeing strollers everywhere), somewhat diverse including a large GLBT population. I've been a little shocked at the pseudo-stability/recovery of housing values just this year in the market considering the high numer of foreclosures in the ZIP code- values still aren't great/fully recovered, but the average price per square foot is currently higher than the city's average. It definitely doesn't fit the description of a "transitional" neighborhood and I don't think it ever has (although it does have a lot of modest homes and is very socioeconomically diverse)- it's a very established neighborhood that attracts a lot of interest from smart, down-to-earth people seeking a nice neighborhood w/strong sense of community ...and to retain some disposable income despite their home purchases.
More info can be found at www.victoryneighborhood.org and the neighborhood has a FB group you could check out.
Last edited by Camden Northsider; 10-17-2010 at 02:23 PM..
We're a ways away from home ownership, but I'll keep that in the back of my mind -- thanks!
The major thing keeping us from going Northside is the schools, but I'm also not familiar with the area at all. What is the nearest recreational lake, for instance? The good thing about SW is that you have the two major city lakes right there and some awesome neighborhood eateries and retail districts. Plus, although crime in Victory isn't a problem now, could it become a problem in the near future? It's sort of surrounded by lower income areas...
I'm from the Lynn/Lake-Uptown area originally & many of us who grew up there have been priced out of the neighborhood as it's become a hot destination for trendy, 30-somethings. I now live in the Nokomis area of Mpls, which is East across 35W from Harriet/Calhoun/Isles almost to the Mississippi river. It's highly underrated & largely forgotten by most outside of the area. It's one of the lowest crime rates in the city year in & year out, it's right by two lakes (Nokomis & Hiawatha), Minnehaha Pkwy, Minnehaha Falls, good public schools, 5 minutes to the Mall of America, 5 minutes to the airport, direct access to downtown on 55, is right by the light rail, is just across 46th St bridge from St Paul's prestigious Highland Park area & is much cheaper than SW-Uptown-Kenwood. I suggest you look at the Wenonah, Keewaydin, Morris Park, Minnehaha areas as they might work for you.
We're actually shopping for a house right now & have a decision to make. Get a loan & spend 150k to get a really nice house 2 blocks from Lake Nokomis in a great school district or buy a house outright (!!!) in the Victory Memorial neighborhood for 50k 2 blocks off of the Pkwy & sort out the school issues. I'm open to Loring Elementary but not 100% sold on it still at this point.
Hmmmm. Speaking from the inside, don't take the Cambridge report too seriously. They only spend 2-5 minutes in each class and the reports vary depending on what reviewer you get. I'd go into the schools you're considering, talk with the principal, ask for a tour, check test scores, see what the neighborhood is like, etc. I wouldn't say that Cambridge is unbiased seeing that they got a busload of $$$ for their reports. If I take my car to a mechanic and say, "Hey, I'll pay you $1000 to tell me if something is wrong with my car...", I'm betting he'd find something wrong with it.
Hmmmm. Speaking from the inside, don't take the Cambridge report too seriously. They only spend 2-5 minutes in each class and the reports vary depending on what reviewer you get. I'd go into the schools you're considering, talk with the principal, ask for a tour, check test scores, see what the neighborhood is like, etc. I wouldn't say that Cambridge is unbiased seeing that they got a busload of $$$ for their reports. If I take my car to a mechanic and say, "Hey, I'll pay you $1000 to tell me if something is wrong with my car...", I'm betting he'd find something wrong with it.
There's never a perfect science with evaluating education and there's always a lot of room for interpretation, including and especially with things like test scores (they are more often an indicator of parents' socioeconomic status/educational level more than anything). Regarding bias from Cambridge, however, there would be absolutely no reason for them to have a specific bias when rating the different Mpls Public Schools (unless of course some parents or administrators were slipping them $100s under the table....and cultural biases can always come into play) which I think holds a lot of value/weight when talking about and comparing the many schools within the district. Even if they did just spend 2-5 minutes in a class (which is extremely short to evaluate curriculum), 2-5 minutes in EVERY classroom in the district is a huge/comprehensive undertaking and significant period of time.
I agree that there is no perfect science, however, asking to see test scores (not just state, but the more holistic scores such as reading level increases, etc would help.
I can tell you that the 2-5 minutes spent in each class is an absurd way in which to judge education in Minneapolis PUblic Schools. Also, Cambridge was well paid to find issues. It's not like it was some non-profit...
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