[Driller1]

Originally Posted by YAZ

No, not at all. We all have opinions, and as long as those opinions are based on facts and well thought out, it makes for interesting "conversation".

The Diesel engine was designed to operate with vegetable oil as fuel. It wasn't cost effective to operate vs. "Diesel Fuel" that you get at your local fillin' station. All Diesel engines in use today can be converted to run on vegetable oil. And the reason we don't do that now remains the same. It's not cost effective.

Creating incentives to go green would be much more effective than penalizing those who don't.

Do you have a link to show the diesel engines would have the same power?? It take a lot to drill a 8 and 3/4 inch hole 500 foot in the rock.

[YAZ]

Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel: Journey to Forever

If the viscosity of the vegetable oil is too thick, it can cause performance problems.

[tjay]

Originally Posted by FESTER

Yes how much of it is excess? that is not for any group or government agency to decide. That is decided by what you can afford and your own values. I am happy to see you say those are your humble opinions. Everyone is entitled to that.
By the way I don't 'label' you a socialist or anything else. Same as I don't 'label' myself a Republican or Democrat. I am in independent. (I bet you couldn't tell ) I look at everything from all ways. Just because I reject your ideas does not make me an egotist. I can disagree with you just like you seem to disagree with me.
I am more than willing to leave the left alone and let them go skipping off to la la land. The problems arise when they can't seem to do the same for us. They just can't resist the temptation to try to force their views down our throat.

i don't really think its for the gov't to decide either, i guess it was more like a philosophical statement. it bugs me that we make billions of plastic bags and they NEVER GO AWAY. its just excessive to me. i would never propose to make any laws stating how much a person can have, i don't believe that's right. i'd suggest people stop and look at what they really value in life, that would be the extent of my bossing anyone around.
and i'm sure that my rants about gluttony and materialism hold as much contempt as your 'liberals skipping into la la land' statement. neither really does any good, does it?
but whatever. what will be will be.

[prairiestate]

Don't forget, green jobs are only a temporary or interim step. In the future, all industries will be green. Look at light bulbs for example. Right now, compact fluorescents represent additional manufacturing jobs. In a few years, they will be the only light bulb manufacturing jobs, with the traditional light bulb factories shutting down.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by prairiestate

Don't forget, green jobs are only a temporary or interim step. In the future, all industries will be green. Look at light bulbs for example. Right now, compact fluorescents represent additional manufacturing jobs. In a few years, they will be the only light bulb manufacturing jobs, with the traditional light bulb factories shutting down.

A company here locally makes LED lighting components and assemblies. LED lights are everywhere now, because they use a mere fraction of the energy that incandescent bulbs do. That company is growing pretty quickly, creating jobs here in West Michigan. I can't fathom why that would be a bad thing. Less energy use, new jobs.

[YAZ]

Originally Posted by prairiestate

Don't forget, green jobs are only a temporary or interim step. In the future, all industries will be green. Look at light bulbs for example. Right now, compact fluorescents represent additional manufacturing jobs. In a few years, they will be the only light bulb manufacturing jobs, with the traditional light bulb factories shutting down.

I wouldn't call flourescent lights "green". While they use less energy than traditional incandescents, they're loaded with mercury, a poisonous element. How are we to dispose of these?

What happens when you break one?

[YAZ]

Originally Posted by magellan

A company here locally makes LED lighting components and assemblies. LED lights are everywhere now, because they use a mere fraction of the energy that incandescent bulbs do. That company is growing pretty quickly, creating jobs here in West Michigan. I can't fathom why that would be a bad thing. Less energy use, new jobs.

We're gonna see a lot more LED's now that mfg costs have been reduced. I dig 'em...

[prairiestate]

Originally Posted by YAZ

I wouldn't call flourescent lights "green". While they use less energy than traditional incandescents, they're loaded with mercury, a poisonous element. How are we to dispose of these?

What happens when you break one?

I think the whole concept of fluorescents is idiotic myself for that reason, but you're missing the point. They're considered part of the "green" movement, but they're not really creating new jobs. Over the long term, I don't think any "green" industries will result in any significant net increase in jobs, because they will replace traditional industries.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by prairiestate

I think the whole concept of fluorescents is idiotic myself for that reason, but you're missing the point. They're considered part of the "green" movement, but they're not really creating new jobs. Over the long term, I don't think any "green" industries will result in any significant net increase in jobs, because they will replace traditional industries.

That's only if you look at the economy as a pie, with a finite number of pieces. That's like saying that new technology jobs are just replacing typewriter repairmen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: over the next twenty years, there are going to be 2 or 3 American sized middle class economies emerging in China and India, that don't exist now, who will want American sized lifestyles. That's a lot of cars, a lot of laptops, a lot of cell phones, a lot of buildings, and a ton of power needs. China has now pledged to be the "greenest" country on the planet in the next decade, which means all those new cars and cell phones and laptops and buildings and power plants will probably be required to be "green". And since China's economy is state controlled, it will be a lot easier and faster for them to achieve it than the U.S. or any European country. So a company like GE pumping out 50 Million incandescent bulbs a year might be replaced by someone else pumping out 500 Million LED or CFL bulbs.

One thing China and third world countries don't do well: build quality. So don't automatically assume all those green products will be made in those countries.