[tjay]

i wonder with healthcare so big, if we ever 'socialized' healthcare would the demand decrease if people weren't getting rich off american's being unhealthy? is it possible to create business where there were profits from health?

[kcam213]

Originally Posted by tjay

i wonder with healthcare so big, if we ever 'socialized' healthcare would the demand decrease if people weren't getting rich off american's being unhealthy? is it possible to create business where there were profits from health?

God forbid that anyone or you needed to be in intensive care unit. However, if it was... would you want someone who made little more than minimum wage to care for, monitor you, help keep you stable through the night?

How much education do you think is needed to do that task? Then think how much a person would expect in compensation for all those years AND cost for getting that education?

Then think about bankers, executives, lawyers, accountants, engineers who make just as much if not MORE than many healthcare workers, sometimes go for less education (sometimes just BA in business will suffice).

Yet I never hear anyone complain about how much these people make (unless it is some ungodly amount like 1 million+). Yet these people don't save a life or comfort someone in an end of life issue.

You get what you pay for. You pay peanuts, you get ... well you know.

[telepicker97]

Originally Posted by kcam213

God forbid that anyone or you needed to be in intensive care unit. However, if it was... would you want someone who made little more than minimum wage to care for, monitor you, help keep you stable through the night?

How much education do you think is needed to do that task? Then think how much a person would expect in compensation for all those years AND cost for getting that education?

Then think about bankers, executives, lawyers, accountants, engineers who make just as much if not MORE than many healthcare workers, sometimes go for less education (sometimes just BA in business will suffice).

Yet I never hear anyone complain about how much these people make (unless it is some ungodly amount like 1 million+). Yet these people don't save a life or comfort someone in an end of life issue.

You get what you pay for. You pay peanuts, you get ... well you know.

I don't think that is what she's getting at...

Americans are fat and lazy. Period. They eat at McDonald's and Pizza Hut and drink Mountain Dew and smoke cigarettes...and that keeps the health care industry (and the pharmaceutical companies in particular) BOOMING...

As far as the ICU - that is necessary.

But blood-pressure medication may not be. Imagine if people ate better, and exercised, and didn't inhale decayed burning vegetation sprayed with arsenic and formaldehyde into thier lungs...how often would they have to go to the doctor's?

They wouldn't...so their insurance would be cheaper.

The health-care industry just wouldn't be as profitable if people didn't need as much health care...

If I needed a flipping lung transplant, then that's one thing...

But Americans go to the doctor's all the time, for every ache and pain, wheeze and wail...

Lactose intolerant? Go to the doctor, get a script.

Heartburn? Go to the doctor, get a script.

Got a bad cough? Go to the doctor, get a script.

Sore throat? Go to the doctor, get a script.

But let's not change our eating habits, our LIFESTYLES!!

Not to mention all the parents who don't pay enough attention to their kids, so their kids wind up with "Attention Deficit Disorder". They go to the doctor, get a script.

It's the biggest racket going, but stupid lazy people make it possible for the big machine to keep rolling along.

[telepicker97]

Originally Posted by Crustedfilth

I'm looking into an oiler position right now.

well, I'm going to be a Substance Abuse Counselor.

Have your people get a hold of my people...

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

feast your eyes

Never EVER base any life decisions on articles in publications like Newsweek. Just because they say a particular occupation is "recession resistant" doesn't mean that with a degree in that field you're guaranteed a job.

It's like thinking "People are always drinking alcohol, even in a recession, so I'll start brewing my own beer". Tell that to the 2000 people laid off recently at Anheuser Busch. These articles are all so flawed, because they try to paint things in such broad strokes (they have no choice, they are a national publication).

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by tjay

i wonder with healthcare so big, if we ever 'socialized' healthcare would the demand decrease if people weren't getting rich off american's being unhealthy? is it possible to create business where there were profits from health?

They do it in lots of countries. No matter where you live, people are going to get sick and hurt, need preventive care and maintenance treatment, hospitalizations and la de da. But MDs in England get bonuses for things like keeping their people healthy, getting them onto exercise programs, and getting them to eat right and stop smoking. There are also incentives for keeping costs low -- e.g. not prescribing some new $500/mo drug when a $10 generic will do just as well. In a country where the vast majority of working people sit at desks all day looking forward to "Miller time," there's a lot of work like that to be done.

The way we do things here is ridiculous. Allowing Pfizer to put million-dollar TV commercials in heavy rotation on all the cable stations not only causes phony demand by people who are self-diagnosing and demanding the pill they saw on TV, but at the same time it also drives up the price of the drug itself. Docs make more money the more often they order unnecessary tests and treatments, instead of getting paid based on how well their patients are. We have more uneccessary treatments than probably anyone anywhere, but we are still pathetic in the health arena. Canada's health care costs much, much less than ours but their people are healthier and live longer.

[telepicker97]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

They do it in lots of countries. No matter where you live, people are going to get sick and hurt, need preventive care and maintenance treatment, hospitalizations and la de da. But MDs in England get bonuses for things like keeping their people healthy, getting them onto exercise programs, and getting them to eat right and stop smoking. There are also incentives for keeping costs low -- e.g. not prescribing some new $500/mo drug when a $10 generic will do just as well. In a country where the vast majority of working people sit at desks all day looking forward to "Miller time," there's a lot of work like that to be done.

The way we do things here is ridiculous. Allowing Pfizer to put million-dollar TV commercials in heavy rotation on all the cable stations not only causes phony demand by people who are self-diagnosing and demanding the pill they saw on TV, but at the same time it also drives up the price of the drug itself. Docs make more money the more often they order unnecessary tests and treatments, instead of getting paid based on how well their patients are. We have more uneccessary treatments than probably anyone anywhere, but we are still pathetic in the health arena. Canada's health care costs much, much less than ours but their people are healthier and live longer.

Just quoting for truth...

[kcam213]

My response is in red:

Originally Posted by telepicker97

I don't think that is what she's getting at...

Americans are fat and lazy. Period. They eat at McDonald's and Pizza Hut and drink Mountain Dew and smoke cigarettes...and that keeps the health care industry (and the pharmaceutical companies in particular) BOOMING...

As far as the ICU - that is necessary.

But blood-pressure medication may not be.

Except that some people have ESSENTIAL hypertension which means that their KIDNEYS lack proper funtioning... did you know it is the kidneys that have the biggest factor in regulating your blood pressure? What if the hypertension is genetics... not diet. It does happen.

Imagine if people ate better, and exercised, and didn't inhale decayed burning vegetation sprayed with arsenic and formaldehyde into thier lungs...how often would they have to go to the doctor's?

They wouldn't...so their insurance would be cheaper.

The health-care industry just wouldn't be as profitable if people didn't need as much health care...

If I needed a flipping lung transplant, then that's one thing... Maybe you smoked? Would that still be "one thing?"

But Americans go to the doctor's all the time, for every ache and pain, wheeze and wail...

Lactose intolerant? Go to the doctor, get a script. For those who are unable to digest milk... just how are they going to get calcium, an imporant nutrient for the heart and blood pressure regulation, how are they going to get vitamin D, important to absorb the calcium and maintain bone density. I guess they could take vitamin supplements... would that be better than taking the enzyme their body is lacking to absorb milk's natural nutrients??

Heartburn? Go to the doctor, get a script. Folks, don't ignore heartburn... it could be nothing, or it could be something. I work in a hospital, ICU for years and now in cardiology... I have seen many people die of esophagus bleeding that some believe are linked to esophagus erosion caused by heartburn.

Got a bad cough? Go to the doctor, get a script. Could be just a cough, could also be an early sign of lung cancer. If it is PERSISTENT, I think it should be investigated further.

Sore throat? Go to the doctor, get a script. See above

But let's not change our eating habits, our LIFESTYLES!!

Not to mention all the parents who don't pay enough attention to their kids, so their kids wind up with "Attention Deficit Disorder". They go to the doctor, get a script. Here, I have to agree with you... to many people are quick to label children as ADD, slow learner etc.

It's the biggest racket going, but stupid lazy people make it possible for the big machine to keep rolling along.

[kcam213]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

They do it in lots of countries. No matter where you live, people are going to get sick and hurt, need preventive care and maintenance treatment, hospitalizations and la de da. But MDs in England get bonuses for things like keeping their people healthy, getting them onto exercise programs, and getting them to eat right and stop smoking. There are also incentives for keeping costs low -- e.g. not prescribing some new $500/mo drug when a $10 generic will do just as well. In a country where the vast majority of working people sit at desks all day looking forward to "Miller time," there's a lot of work like that to be done.

The way we do things here is ridiculous. Allowing Pfizer to put million-dollar TV commercials in heavy rotation on all the cable stations not only causes phony demand by people who are self-diagnosing and demanding the pill they saw on TV, but at the same time it also drives up the price of the drug itself. Docs make more money the more often they order unnecessary tests and treatments, instead of getting paid based on how well their patients are. We have more uneccessary treatments than probably anyone anywhere, but we are still pathetic in the health arena. Canada's health care costs much, much less than ours but their people are healthier and live longer.

And here is the worst part... the insurance companies will then refuse to pay for the new wonder drug substituing for an alternative... most times it is effective substitute... but sometimes it is not.

For instance DRUG COMPANIES... Cozar can NOT be substituted by Aldomet... one is time released, one is not. it affects the patients differently. Duh!

[magellan]

You guys are getting way off topic. How about bringing it back around.