[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by JenM

Ok I have lived in MI all of my life and have recently wanted to move out of state (because of the bad ecomony here) with my husband and kids. Then I discovered this website and started reading all of the posts from people who have moved and say it is the worst mistake in the world. They say " the grass is always greener no matter what, so stay put and you'll be happy" or "you'll be an outsider and won't be accepted" or "its bad all over the U.S." So it made me rethink about moving. I started to believe that maybe I was making a mountain out of a mole hill (the MI economy, that is) and I'd be better off staying put. I thought maybe it will get better.

Now I've been reading alot more posts of people who are pleased with leaving MI and have found the "perfect spot" to live; how Michiganders are lifeless, boring, dull and depressed; how many other states offer better jobs, better pay and better insurance. So it gives me hope and I get excited about moving again.

But it really is all a matter of perspective. What may seem like a great place to one person, might be like living in hell to another. I'm not gonna ask the ritual question of : where should i move to? That is irrevelent at this point in time. What I really want to know is, is Michigan really that bad? Or is it a "grass is always greener" sceanrio? I mean I know the ecomony stinks (heck I can't find a good paying job) but what makes another state appealing over this one?

I keep hearing how "Michigan is such an unfriendly, poverty-stricken, lifeless, uneducated hole" and that "Michigan is dying" and "Michigan is a ______________", well you get the idea. But I hear that alot about other states too. I guess I am just really confused right now.

I am at this point in my life where I either stay here, and make it work or I leave now and make new roots somewhere else. But I really am not sure if moving will solve any of my problems. Some of the veteran movers on this site say "Don't move to get away from something" But what if the something you are trying to get away from is that state's bad economy itself? Then what? Is that the exception to the rule?

Which is the bigger risk,staying here in MI waiting for the ecomony to get better or leaving with no money, no place to live, no job, in hopes for a better life somewhere else?

REPLY PART I

In Italian there is an expression, "Tutto Il Mondo E Paese". It means, "All of the world is country". Wherever you are is home. Where ever you are you will make friends. You will send your children to school and you will have a roof over your head, food and clothes. But all this depends on a job. Life can be hard.

That said, the manufacturing industrial way of life that we have lived in Michigan for the last 100 years is over. Finito. Over. With information technology and robotics doing many of the jobs of yesteryear in the automobile industry, there is much less need for people to do the work. And more importantly, there are much less need for middle managers/white collars types, to oversee employees. New hires at Ford Motor will require college educations. There will be need of less managers to oversee college educated people putting data into computer decision support systems. If it can't be made cheaply in the United States (that is cheaper than in China or India then adding in transportation costs), then we won't be making it in the USA. As long as people won't spend more for food or automobiles than the foreign competition offers, we will continue to buy the most economical product that will do the same job. Cars included.

But there are many new jobs opening up. And good paying jobs. I don't want to say it, but it is the same as when we were graduating from high school. Get a good education and you will be more likely to ride out the difficult times. Develop good job skills and learn how to market yourself. If you can, learn engineering, information or business skill sets. There is always a need for these types of jobs skill sets. And because the baby boomers are going to start to retire in two years, there is going to be an even larger need for these types of skill sets in the future. Scientific degrees, even if an assoiate degree, will also be in demand. There is going to be a tremendous need in the healthcare industry for people. A two year nursing degree is valuable. Think about going and getting an associates degree in something that has market value. Even if you have to take out a student loan. Get the cooperation of your spouse. A small investment now will pay for itself later in allowing you to have a salary of $15.00 an hour or more rather than $7-9 otherwise.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by JenM

Which is the bigger risk,staying here in MI waiting for the ecomony to get better or leaving with no money, no place to live, no job, in hopes for a better life somewhere else?

REPLY PART II

60% of the population do not have collage degrees. There is a need for the people with at least two years of post high school education/skill sets. You can stay in the 60% and do nothing for the future, or you can start NOW and decide that you want to solve some of the problems in two years. If you are not working and have school age children at home, you can take classes during the day and also the evening. Two classes a week would help you. On your resume you could say you have skill sets from what you have learned at college. If you do not risk anything, you will never get ahead of the other 60% that don't have the skill sets that you could get for yourself.

Whether you stay here or you move, you are going to have to have the skill sets that are in demand. Even in the Detroit area there are many jobs that are looking for specific types of skill sets, but they go unanswered because the people do not have the necessary education or skill sets.

A note: as the economy becomes more sophisticated, there is going to be less and less need for people who have no skill sets. You will be in a pool of 50 to 60% of the people with less than two years of college competing for fewer and fewer jobs that require only a high school education.

I know that this will cause you to sacrifice your time with children, husband and family. But if you do not acquire useful skill sets now, in two years things are going to be much worse in the Detroit area than they are now.

And moving out of state will not solve the problem either as the jobs out of state also need the skill sets that are in demand.

So this is what you have been seeing. The job market is the same out of state for people do not have the skill sets in demand. There will be many service jobs developing, but if you don't have the specialized skill sets for these jobs, then you will be competing for unskilled jobs that pay less than $10 an hour. No one can live by themselves on $10 an hour. Even if you have a spouse that make more, if they lose their job, you are stuck in a situation where after their benefits run out, you are both making only $10 an hour.

If you can read and write and do some math, there are many career opportunities in community college where you can gain some useful skill sets.

The time to start preparing is now (or even 6 months ago). Things are going to get worse in Detroit/SE Michigan before they get better. And when things get bad, people return to college and acquire new skill sets so that when the market starts to change locally, they are ready for this. Don't wait until things really bottom out and then go get the skill sets, you will be behind the curve and will end up with the left overs positions from those that returned early to acquire new skill sets.

Michigan has a very high level of education and it is a well respected educational system. We produce very good engineers, business people, tecnical and scientific people. The key to solving your problems rest in your hands. Go and acquire the skills sets that employers are looking for, and will be looking for for the next 10 years. Take some community college courses to acquire these skill sets. And then work with the job placement bureau at the College to get an internship or a full time position.

Study some information technology. Almost all jobs require a knowledge of computers. The more that you can acquire, the better you will be positioned. Fixing all of the electronic things we are accumulating will be a great area to work in the future. Fixing medical equipment even today is a good paying position.

In the future, almost every job paying more than $10 (or equivalent buying power) will require two years of college education. You should prepare for it now. Could your family use an extra income of $15.00 an hour with benefits in two years. That is $600.00 a week and $2400.00 a month or $30,000 a year. And this is only the beginning. Once you have your foot in the door, you will be able to acquire more college credits to finally get a bachelors degree. The future will need more engineers, nurses, teachers, information technology, business management and other people with these skill sets. Start NOW to acquire these skill sets. The job market is looking for people with these types of skill sets.

Moving to another place without the skill sets and a job offer beforehand usually doesn't work. Acquire your new skill sets now. The Industrial Age is ending in this country, prepare yourself for the Information Age of the 21st Century.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

For the record, I was stating that they have "three of the nations largest" which IS correct. After attending NC State I think I know the correct enrollment. Also, since 2000, we've had the mini crash since 9/11/01, a HUGE amount of homes being put in foreclosure status, as well as a huge displacement of persons due to Katrina and the national economic struggle. That map wouldn't even be recognizable at this point, nearly 10 years later. Go to quick facts.census.gov, Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed Look at the migration of people, and the amount of poverty. That map is completely out-dated. Furthermore, I wasn't comparing the universities of North Carolina to those of Michigan, I was stating that Raleigh, and the particular vicinity has one of the highest populations of college educated people, making it difficult to compete for jobs. If you've ever lived in Raleigh, the town motto is "Tee's Green's and Phd's." If you think 10 years wont change economic structures, statistics, and peoples lives.....well thats just silly. The map posted, (which we don't know who slapped the statistics together), if you know the country well we can start in the west. All the dark red areas represent portions that are EXTREMELY sparse in terms of population. Obviously, no people, no jobs=poverty. What constitutes as "poverty" has also changed since 99-00 when the economy was eons better than currently. Levels of income have changed, companies have gone through huge amounts of corporate engineering, restructuring and outsourcing, millions of jobs lost to overseas ventures, and manufacturing has since dried. Even more silly, the map shows the Detroit area in rather good shape.......??? Wow, even in 2000 the market in Detroit was one of the worst in the country. The 2010 census will reshape the way politicians seek policy, and will play a huge role in fostering change with our tax system, insurance corporations and our tactics to compete with rapid globalization.

REPLY Part I

Cute:

Facts: Michigan has one of the highest education levels of it citizens in the world. We are awash with engineers, technical and scientific people. So much so that you don't realize this until you go elsewhere. The engineers, scientifics and technical people pretty easily find jobs out of state. And new college graduate with needed skill sets are migrating out of state at the highest level since the 1930's and late 70's and early 80's.

Jobs are not being created here because companies don't want to have the problems with the unions. Unions are good in some ways, but they do not allow businesses much flexibility. Unions limit the options a company has in difficult and good times. And secondly, the tax structure in this state is not geared toward attracting new jobs.

Michigan people are used to the cyclic ups and downs of our economies. Like snow comes to Michigan in the winter, life in Michigan ebbs and wanes in a cyclical nature. Michigan has tried to combat that by not being so dependent on the Auto industry. But did so only partially.

But we are experiencing rapid shifts in employment and skill sets in the WORLD today. It used to be that capitol could migrate and labor problems were local. But now with the mobile economy, labor is also dynamic. You go where there are skilled jobs. Hence, Michigan College graduates don't have a problem finding a job. But 5/6 of the time the job is out of state. We are loosing most of our college graduates from 20 to 30 of age. This brain drain means we are not creating the jobs to employ them, but also that other states are creating the jobs that we are not.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

What constitutes as "poverty" has also changed since 99-00 when the economy was eons better than currently. Levels of income have changed, companies have gone through huge amounts of corporate engineering, restructuring and outsourcing, millions of jobs lost to overseas ventures, and manufacturing has since dried. Even more silly, the map shows the Detroit area in rather good shape.......??? Wow, even in 2000 the market in Detroit was one of the worst in the country. The 2010 census will reshape the way politicians seek policy, and will play a huge role in fostering change with our tax system, insurance corporations and our tactics to compete with rapid globalization.

REPLY PART II

Also, Michigan is not a poor state. CA, MA, NYC and DC, VA areas are all 40% more expensive than in the SE Michigan area. You can buy a nice house for $250,000 to $300,000 in Michigan. In the other areas, you have to double that, at least double that price for the same 2400 square foot house you could have in Michigan.

The less money you make, the less you pay taxes on. So it is better to make less money and pay less taxes than the opposite. We are better off in Michigan than many other places. The State of Michigan has always saved money in good times and had the money to support new education and training programs and support the start up of new businesses. This time though, there is no reason to believe that we will be able to quickly start new industries and businesses to replace the manufacturing jobs that are gone forever. So a State deficit, may remain a deficit for a long time. We won't have new car sales that will produce the new taxes to pay for the lost manufacturing industry.

What is at the base of Michigan's problems are that we have less jobs, no new corporate growth and highly educated people leaving the State, probably never to return.

We must create new jobs and keep the educated highly paid jobs in Michigan. So both the State of Michigan and private industry should be working to help create new jobs and attract new companies to Michigan.

This has not been done quickly enough in the past. Government takes to much time to get things done. And they are worried about taking care of the unemployed and the need for income generation (taxes) to do so.

They are not investing in the new cutting edge industries as they should be doing. And they are not investing enough to make State government effective and efficient with the use of information technology. By cutting the cost of delivering services to the people of Michigan, they will also have the money to invest in new corporate development and new industries. The State of Michigan new this was coming and did not start and continue to do this in 2000.

The $50 Million a year from the Cigarette award that was to be used to invest in new healthcare industries in the Life Science Initiatives was reduced to $15 Million and diverted to other areas of Government. This will hurt the research and development efforts of Michigan in the future. We will lose the advantage in gaining the fast tract to new technologies in the life sciences. In areas such as Biotechnology, Proteomics, Pharmacogenomics, etc.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

Wow, even in 2000 the market in Detroit was one of the worst in the country. The 2010 census will reshape the way politicians seek policy, and will play a huge role in fostering change with our tax system, insurance corporations and our tactics to compete with rapid globalization.

REPLY PART III

Although, money was invested to help improve the IT systems in Michigan, they were not in areas that would save the average Michigan person time or money. The investments were in the area of the FIA or Dept. of Human Services. But investment was badly needed in these areas. The Dept. of Community Health was using outdated French Bull legacy computers. The French Company was no longer in business and the mainframes computers were outdated, and very costly to run.

State Government has not analyzed its business processes and implemented professional project management to manage these government administrative processes and implement the changes that need to be done. Federal Goverment IT programs are now requiring the State of Michigan to get it together. OMB 123 and A-11 are examples of Project Management requirements. And FISMA or Federal Security standards will also be required. This will create good paying jobs and more importantly, will reengineer the States IT system to deliver the services to the Citizens at a much more economical manner. But these things should have been done 6 years ago. Not one to two years ago. Government take too long to react to crises. Hence why most goverment services should be outsourced if possible. Of Government has to learn how to provide services at a very low administrative cost. With information technology of the future, Government will have to learn to deliver services efficiently, or they will be outsourced.

Michigan is in transition, and these are the factors involved. Michigan is not poor, by any means. We are highly educated. Pretty hard working and very productive people. The problem has been that the world has been changing and we have not changed fast enough.

And until we do and we start to create many new businesses and new organizations of the future, we will continue to have to send our most highly trained and educated young people out of State for the good highly paid jobs that should be in the State of Michigan. To create the jobs, in the short run, you must lower taxes and make the labor element much more flexible so that businesses can quickly adapt to changing market conditions.

When this occurs, there will be more money to pay taxes to support the Government deficit that we are sure to accrue. And there will be more people working and more people paying taxes.

The first step is to create jobs, and that means to support businesses that can create new jobs. After the jobs are created, Government can think about how to divide up the wealth that they have created. But until you do create more jobs, there will be a dwindling population with less people to pay for more government and without raising taxes, it will cause a deficit. Which then means that government has to cut its services or deliver them more efficiently. Money has to go for investment to creat new businesses and to pay for present and future healthcare needs. People have to acquire skills sets to obtain a job. And that means Detroit. The constant, generational unemployment, lack of postive revenue production and negative (that is large) consumption of government services, has got to end.

Until government cuts its costs and stimulates more income production by the creation of new jobs and new companies, government will have to become deficitaire. They have to provide the same services, to fewer people and to supply them much more efficiently. This will cut the tax burden on individuals and on businesses. People have to work. If you are able to work, there should be some sort of job for you. If only sweeping streets, digging ditches or working at $10 or less an hour. The opportunity should be there to obtain an education, but if people don't want to acquire skill sets that are in demand, then they should work at jobs that push them to want to improve their lot in life. This can be done by not consuming government services and acquiring skills sets that are in demand. The rest of the population should not be burdened by people who can work, but chose not to do so. Acquire the skill sets, get a job or get a lower paying job. In this manner, the State of Michigan will no longer need to increase its income and can use its revenue to fix its internal infrastructure and make delivery of services less costly. By lowering what it pays out by increasing employment, even part time employment, the need for increased revenue can be decreased and decreased taxes will allow more businesses to install themselves in Michigan.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

The 2010 census will reshape the way politicians seek policy, and will play a huge role in fostering change with our tax system, insurance corporations and our tactics to compete with rapid globalization.

REPLY PART IV

Michigan must compete with the other States to provide services at a lower cost, to decrease the demand for their services and to lower the tax rate so that the cost of doing business is Michigan is decreased for businesses. Unlike the past where only capital was able to travel to less costly geographical locations, we now have businesses that can travel to areas where the labor market is less costly. There are more areas in the USA and the world where high educational and engineering knowledge levels are present, unlike 100 years ago. This is one factor that has fundamentally changed in 100 years. High tech companies don't have to install themselves where there is a problem with labor. And capital has been able to go where there is a need since even before Victorian times. In the end, the geographical location of a business is less important because both capital and labor are easily found in many parts of the world. And Michigan must compete with this new reality. Unions, if there is a need for them in the modern Information Age of the 21st Century, must be very adaptable and help businesses implement rapid change and not impede this rapid change.

This should have been done 5 years ago and taxes should have been lowered 5 years ago to stimulate businesses moving to Michigan. Now we are in for a period of high Government expenditures, high demand and inefficient delivery of Government services, with higher than needed taxes, and loss of positive job growth. Governement in Michigan FAILED to get ahead of the change curve, even though we all knew it was coming. We knew long before Chrysler laid off 5000 people that this was coming. Government has been badly managed in Michigan. In 2000, the only option was to decrease the costs of service delivery, by making delivery systems more efficient and decreasing demand for those services. This was not done. It is the direct result of the lack of management skill sets in Michigan government.

In the USA, we have had about the same amout of total automotive jobs in the total US economy. It is just that they are moving from the high cost areas of the country, like Michigan, to the lower cost States like Georgia, South Carolina, Arkansas, Nevada, Alabama, Arizona, Texas, etc. Government continued to put its head into the sand when we have known for 8 years that the automobile industry was going downhill in the State of Michigan and that we would have decreased revenue and increased costs. Jobs are being transferred from the Blue States to the Red States.

The problem is that Michigan has become a very unattractive place to do business in the USA. And so new Michigan college graduates are leaving the state in droves, along with many of the laid off workers. Government can not be the cause of preventing new job creation. But it is exactly the case when taxes are high and companies can go elsewhere to create new jobs. The USA will be fine, the net number of jobs will expand. It is just that they won't be created in Michigan and our standard of living will continue to decline, with less people paying more for the same amount of services. Cutting the amount of services and decreasing the cost of such service delivery is fundamental to decreasing taxes and increasing the standard of living and decreasing the loss of wealth creation in Michigan. People must acquire new job skills and taxes must be decreased and new business growth stimulated.

And because this was not done earlier and specifically in the Detroit area, Michigan will be running a deficit for years to come, until it can create new jobs in Michigan by making it attrative for new businesss to install themselves in the Great State of Michigan.

The difference is that in the Southern States, being that you are more conservative, in a social sense, you refuse to allow generation after generation to live off of the rest of the citizens of your state. You force people to acquire saleable job skill sets or you stop giving them money to live on. If someone wants to be poor when the opportunity to get out of poverty is given them, then that is their choice. The rest of us in Michigan should not be forced to pay for people that just want to sit on their butts.

I have gone to school at Duke University. It is very nice there, but the Southerners don't have a problem saying that they don't want to support a group of people that don't want to take care of themselves.

As Ross Perot used to say (He is a Southerner in that warm climate that you were speaking about), "When the barn starts to smell, it is time to clean out the barn." Michigan needs to clean out its barn.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by mary_in_michigan

However...it doesn't seem a whole lot different here than it was in Cali- and I like the slower, friendlier pace of things here- not to mention they have actual seasons here, and....no smog! And green? Omg is it green here- i've never seen so many trees that AREN'T army/olive drab. We're looking to relocate to the Traverse City area, and the prices for housing are actually very good- the only thing I have to say about relocating, is I wouldn't do it unless I had family/friends in the place I wanted to move to- someone who knows the area, and the in's & out's of things.

Other than that....I like Michigan jussst fine, tyvm!

Great!!!

Someone that sees the good things in Michigan.

My family moved here in the 1840's and my Great Grandfather was born in 1866 in MICHIGAN.

Michigan is greener. We have more water than the States around us can divert (still). The people are friendly. They are not agressive like New York, or anything goes (like California). Most have a good amount of "Common Sense" which is sometimes very uncommon.

Go up to the Keeweenaw Peninsula in the Summertime. it is truly God's Country. The air is so fresh, the water so blue and the trees so green. Few places on earth are so beautiful.

We have four seasons and therefore we are very happy when things are warm, because we remember when it was 25 degrees below zero last Winter. We are very happy when we have the sun and we try to soak up as much Vitamin D as we can during our two or three months of warm sunny days. We have a Spring with a good warming rain that causes the lakes to fill and the plants and flowers to blossom. Michigan in the springtime is beautiful, with the Springtime growth of the flowers and the trees.

Michigan has the most beautiful Falls when the leaves are changing colors. Beautiful golds and reds and oranges that are something few other Americans know. We have Maple Syrup and Apple Cider. We have Blueberries and Black Bears. We have very good fruit production in this State. We even have some decent wine production. We produce a lot of sugar and potatoes and corn and have a good farming ability. We have mines and we have trees. We can develop these industries if the price of their production is not too high. If not, we can wait until the other developers of trees or ore run out and then we can develop ours at a later date. But trees are renewable and we should be farming our trees, if there is a market for them. We have so much wildlife and game that most farmers have to fill their freezers full of deer so as to have some of their crops for harvest.

We have waterfalls and lakes and lighthouses and sandy beaches with driftwood on the sandy beaches.

We have green forest trails and all types of pretty birds and interesting animals. We have the ferocious Wolverine. And oppossums, skunks and other rodents, including beavers. And green ferns and funny little green frogs.

We have an abundance of rivers and flowing streams that gurgle and ease out to our wonderful Great Lakes.

We have trout and salmon and an abundance of Natural Resources that have been well managed by our DNR.

The water is some of the best tasting water in the world.

I have lived 15 years in Europe, in Lausanne/Basle, Switzerland, Padua, Italy and Quebec, Canada (cold is relative- we have warm Winters in Michigan) and we miss some things in Michigan, that they have elsewhere, like Mountains and Oceans and Seafood. But we have everything else- but we also lack the earthquakes, landslides and hurricanes that come with the oceans and the mountains.

The State Motto is something like: If You Search a Beautiful Peninsula: Look About You.

This is very true.

Michigan is a natural paradise.

We in Michigan will turn things around and we will start to develop new industries and create new jobs. We have some very intelligent people at our State and Private Universities that are constantlly discovering things. We will be a leader in Healthcare, Biomedical Computing, Proteomics, Nanotechnology and other engineering and biological areas.

And we have each other. Michigan people are not mean, agressive or hostile. If everyone gives to a charity of their choice, or gives a few dollars a month for electricity, we can ease the damage done in this downward time in Michigan. But no one is going to starve and no one should go without a warm place to stay in. Michiganders are not for allowing people to freeze to death in the Winter. But the people who are offered help, should not think that the offer is forever. They should go back to school, get the skills sets they need to get a new job and get back to work. Most Michiganders are not against such a plan. But everyone must do their part.

We have most everything else that we need.

Michigan is a beautiful Paradise.

Thanks for saying so.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by organicgirl

My husband and I are planning to move away from Michigan this year or next. We have both lived here our whole lives and find that it now sucks- economy is horrible, housing market is the pits- but we are currently researching other states. It is a challenge to research other areas when you don't know much about them, but we are having fun doing it. We love the mountains, but want enough water and a place to garden. Michigan has the least sunny days, which I hate because of my seasonal depression. So, the hunt is on. I would not recommend anyone moving here. Look elsewhere!

Turn the need to move away from a negative into an opportunity to find something that you really would like to do and a place that you would really like to live. You would be surprised at how adaptable we really are to change. No one likes to change, but once you decide you are going to do something, it can be changed into an opportunity of a lifetime.

There is the sun, sea and moutains that we don't have in Michigan. The world is a big place. I spent 10 years in Italy and Switzerland and another 5 years in Quebec, Canada. But I came back to Michigan. Everyone asked why in 1993. Because it is a beautiful place to live.

But there will come a time when I don't want to shovel snow, or I think that the fluffy snow drifting down isn't as pretty as it used to be. And then I will think about moving to the Carolinas, or Virginia or Florida. (Or even Cozumel, Mexico or Veneto, Italy where I have lived).

In the 15 years abroad, I always found something nice about where I was living. The new sites, the new people, the new ways of doing things will keep you interested for at least 10 years. If you get bored, you can always move somewhere else.

Only suggestion, try to visit the places you would like to live (good excuse for an travel vacation for a few weeks). Once you get there, it is not always as you think it will be in the books, internet or magazines you read about it.

As Americans, we are very fortunate to have such a large country and are able to travel and move where ever we want, for whatever reasons we want. Many countries don't have the vast territory to choose from.

We are very lucky to have that type of choice.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by JoeLunchBox11

Sure, Michigan isnt doing all that well now, but what do you expect? We are a manufactoring based economy. Despite popular opinion, Michigan is more than Detriot (which is only 1/10th of our pop) The Grand Rapids area which is the second largest city in a top ten most populated state is on an upswing. There is a ton of development downtown. The cost of living is low and the beauty of the big lake is only a half hour away. I'm a life long Michigander, and love it here, just ignore the east side of the state, and its a great place to live. People from the outside may think of the Detriot area when they think of this state, but most people from west michigan associate themselves to Chicago rather than detriot.(both about an 2.5 hours away) Not only is the Grand Rapids area a great place to live and grow up, (im 23 now) its a great place to raise a family. I live and work here with just a high school degree live a middle class life and love it. West Michigan, along with central and northern lower Michigan have alot to offer.

I have recently been considering moving to Grand Rapids. I was about to do so in 1993 but things didn't work out and I moved to the Troy, Michigan area.

I liked what you said about people in Grand Rapids relating to Chicago as their major metropolis. My mother was orignally from Windsor, Canada and they all relate to Detroit, MI, USA as their "town" rather than Toronto, Canada. Funny how that is.

Grand Rapids is a little flat, but it is a nice clean town. In 1993, there were just trying to renovate the Victorian area near Butterworth Hospital. They were pretty houses but old and not well taken care of.

Since then, I have been back quite a few times, for conferences at the Van Andel Institute and meetings in the area. Each time I have been happy with my visit. The people are very friendly, more so than in the Eastern side of Michigan. Grand Rapids just seems newer and younger with much more hope than we have had in the Detroit area.

Detroit for so long has not seemed to want to reform and clean itself up. But it seems to be turning around somewhat. They are building many new housing units South of the Medical Center and putting in paved streets and good lighting. I am sure that they will continue to do so section by section. But it is taking a longtime to turn around. Eastern Market is nice and the Riverfront is coming along fine. Nice restaurants in the Renaissance Center, also.

[Globusproject]

Originally Posted by southernlady5464

Didn't see the source *I* quoted...or did you bother looking for it? Hot or not? Housing markets across America http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8475859



Couple that with what my realtor said about this area being terrible...I tend to believe it.

Yes, other areas are being affected but the "Rust belt" is getting hit the hardest. Liz

In many major real estate markets, there were many people who were investing in second, third and fourth single family residences. New York, Boston, Los Angeles, Washington DC, most of California, Miami and much of Florida has this type of housing problem. Speculators are not able to sell their houses because everyone has bought one.

In Michigan and Ohio there was little speculationa and the people who are trying to sell, but can't are single family owners who actually live in their homes. The others are crying because they may have to reduce their 200% profit on their houses to only 160% profit and they are whining.

This is much different than someone who has to sell their home so that they have the money to buy the other home in their new location.

I have had friends move to Arizona, and now to Georgia, but it has been an orderly move. It seems that almost every recruiter in the country knows that there are people that want to move out of Michigan and they are contacting people in Michigan and looking to place them in their local markets. Most other areas of the US have job openings for qualified people. But you have to have the job skills.

I think that much of the problem in Michigan is that people are not used to this type of change and that they are speaking out. And the media is using it to make people scared. It serves the purpose of the Detroit Free Press that people fee insecure and therefore resist the change that must occur. And if you are waiting for a Union to help you out, good luck. Economic trends and shifts are much stronger than even the US government can resist. Governments can ease the shock of the landing, but they can't prevent these changes.

It will take at least a couple of years for any job turn around to occur. And the housing market will not get better before then. The only thing you can do is to find out the prices that the houses are selling in your area and discount your house 5% below the lowest price, if you want to sell. If you don't do it now, you may have to discount the sale price of the home 10% next year when there are more houses on the market.

Or you can wait 4 or 5 or more years until the market turns around.

I think that things are at a low point, but this is a cyclical thing that occurs here in SE Michigan and with time we will come out of it again. It isn't as bad as it was in 1981.

Good luck with the house though.