[farrelli]

Hi,

I'm really battling with this and hope to get some advice. I recently turned 50 and my financial guy says that I can retire if I want to, even though I've put my money into ultra conservative investments. I'm currently looking at either Marquette or somewhere in Vermont. I live in Boston, so VT is BY FAR the more practical move. It's only a 5 hour drive to where I'm looking (which makes house hunting a lot easier), it's beautiful, the people are nice, people are quite liberal, progressive, and well educated, I'm only a few hours from major metro areas in case I want or need to visit (such as seeing a specialist should I fall ill), and it even has a lot of economic opportunity should I want to continue working (which I think I do, at least part time, as much to meet people as anything). Vermont definitely could be home to me but I really like MQT. It feels like home. VT doesn't

I grew up on the MI/OH border and I just know a lot about MI, so it's very familiar to me. I love the outdoors, cool weather, winter sports, low population density, and people who are down to earth. MQT just works for me, but it's SO impractical, especially the prospect of house shopping from Boston and the eventual move there. I also really worry about hunting season and how prevalent it is. I'm an animal rights guy who will be doing wildlife rescue and rehab in my spare time, and the fact that humans still treat our fellow animals with such banal cruelty is possibly one of the most depressing things in my life, so if everyone's a hunter, that would really suck.

I'm worried that there might be an economic bubble going on up there too. The home prices simply aren't commensurate with income. I'm looking to spend $350-400K, cash, and that used to get you a mansion up there, but no longer. Its home prices are basically the same as in Vermont, where it definitely gets you something nice and on land, but VT has higher wages, higher education, and just VASTLY more economic opportunity than MQT. I've been told by a realtor that prices are up in many ways because of roadwork, the new hospital, and a variety of other jobs that have been created of late, but many if not most of them don't look good for the long term -which could lead to eventual deflation of the market. And for some reason, according to my realtor, the real estate market is super slow this year so the kind of home that I'm looking for (rustic feel, on at least 5 acres, with higher end finishes) just aren't coming onto the market.

And as to jobs, I'm worried that I wouldn't be able to get one if I wanted one. I've worked as a computer systems engineer for Harvard Medical School and its umbrella of hospitals for 20 years, and I'm pretty well recruited down here, but I can't find much in terms of IT up there, and I'm pretty downwardly mobile because I'm not really super needy about income anymore. I've looked at all the other threads about MQT which are a few years old, and all of them mention that MQT just isn't the place to come to unless you already have a job. I wouldn't need one right away, but I would like to catch on somewhere so that I could kind of become integrated into the community - but I don't think that I'm quite ready to take a gig at Walmart. VT goes out of its way to entice people with educations and money to move there, but I tried for weeks to even get someone from the MQT chamber of commerce to call me back to ask some questions and no one returns a call.

So, what do you think? Could a life long city guy fit in up there? Would I be able to get a part time gig? Or should I just suck it up and move to VT which seems to beat the crap out of MQT on paper but just doesn't seem like home?

Thanks.

[jdhpa]

Originally Posted by farrelli

So, what do you think? Could a life long city guy fit in up there? Would I be able to get a part time gig? Or should I just suck it up and move to VT which seems to beat the crap out of MQT on paper but just doesn't seem like home?

My $0.02, from what you've said, you will be much happier in Vermont.

[BusinessManIT]

Vermont seems to be the better option for you.

[OneDawg]

TMI and another vote for VT

[farrelli]

Thanks but does anyone from MQT have any input other than a vote?

It really feels like home. I think the moment when it all sunk in was a tour of Presque Isle. I took the path not generally taken, literally inches from falling probably hundreds of feet into lake Superior. No fence or guardrail. Most "civilized" places would have a phalanx of lawyers prohibiting that, but not MQT.

MQT also doesn't shy away from the native history. These days, I hear a lot about reparations to African Americans and I hear slavery referred to as the "original sin" of America - and it is a powerful thing, and it was an abomination, and America would never have risen to power without slavery, and we should make reparations in some regard, but the fact that even the downtrodden don't even give lip-service to the people who were wiped out and whose bones they stand on? That says a lot. Get in line.

I just want to get some sense of if MQT is worth the extra effort, from people who are there. To me, it seems like Mayberry. People say hello in the grocery store, they call you "hun" in the diner, they leave their purse or cell on the table at the bar when they use the bathroom. It just seems like dialing things back a few decades in a lot of really great ways. But I also worry that the Delorean trip might take things back in other ways as well.

I'm the first and only person in my family (on either side) to get a college degree. I'm in a hell of a lot better place than anyone else on either side of my family or virtually anyone I grew up with, but despite that, I get put down by pretty much all of them and told in no uncertain terms about how "stupid" I am and how much of an ivory tower I live in. It's like the people in Kentucky lecturing the people in Massachusetts about how wrong they are politically, economically, and in ever other way, despite the fact that they can't keep their heads above water economically and states like MA have to bail them out to pay for their roads, hospitals, schools, etc. I just DO NOT want to move to a place where people are nice to me (condescendingly) but think that every choice that I make is wrong, despite the fact that it's proven to serve me, society, and the environment better than what they might choose.

Basically, I worry about living in another midwestern bubble where facts don't matter. Part of my metric on this is the hunting thing (which I can't stand.) Statistically, hunting is almost exactly the same as smoking. The smarter you are, the more idiotic it seems to be. If you're a smoker, you're almost guaranteed to have a high school diploma or less and make a low income. You smoke because you don't understand the negative consequences and don't want to. You do it to make yourself feel cool and fit in. Same for hunting, but instead of just making yourself suffer, you make others suffer as well. I don't want to live in a place where logically obvious choices are not only questioned, but held up to ridicule. When I was a kid, I got **** for not smoking or chewing tobacco, now I get **** for not killing animals or voting Republican (in the age of Trump). Really? Let's have that discussion.

MQT leans left socially, and votes in their own self-interest economically, but is surrounded by a sea of people who do the opposite and refuse to even entertain the idea that they're doing that. This situation would drive me insane.

I'm also looking for someplace with a REAL economic plan. Rural areas in the US are dying and remote rural areas are basically a write off. Places of competition, like Vermont, have people devoted to recruiting people with money and education. They subsidize visits, introduce you to employers, take your calls, invest heavily in universal high speed internet, etc. They know that in the next 20-30 years, they will either succeed or have their small populations sucked away by more economically viable areas. MQT seems fine to let things play out how it will play out with no plan at all. I know this will sound like utter *******ry, but I'm a guy who's in the top 7% in terms of net worth, with a great education, and who's more motivated to help an area that I love than to fill my own pockets, but I can't get an answer from city hall about possible placement. Vermont will be on the phone to numerous employers in the region to get a low level IT guy a job (because they know IT is a growth area) but MQT won't even pick up the phone for someone with a six figure resume and a few general questions.

Again, I love MQT, but it seems to work in every way to embrace unexamined perceptions about its future rather than buckling down, figuring **** out, and ensuring things going forward. I really wish that someone could give me some food for thought on the other side of the leder. But maybe the people there have a reason not to do that. I'm just hoping that someone might step forward and give me a reason to think that going with my heart might be better than going with my head.

[TRlaura]

I love Marquette, but you didn't describe one single thing that I love about it.


You should not move there, less even travel there. Just stay below the bridge.

[farrelli]

So instead of telling me why you like MQT, you just insult me by calling me a troll? You'd probably be offended if you came to MA and some snotty blue blood called you a hillbilly, right? How about a little engagement?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by farrelli

Thanks but does anyone from MQT have any input other than a vote?

It really feels like home. I think the moment when it all sunk in was a tour of Presque Isle. I took the path not generally taken, literally inches from falling probably hundreds of feet into lake Superior. No fence or guardrail. Most "civilized" places would have a phalanx of lawyers prohibiting that, but not MQT.

MQT also doesn't shy away from the native history. These days, I hear a lot about reparations to African Americans and I hear slavery referred to as the "original sin" of America - and it is a powerful thing, and it was an abomination, and America would never have risen to power without slavery, and we should make reparations in some regard, but the fact that even the downtrodden don't even give lip-service to the people who were wiped out and whose bones they stand on? That says a lot. Get in line.

I just want to get some sense of if MQT is worth the extra effort, from people who are there. To me, it seems like Mayberry. People say hello in the grocery store, they call you "hun" in the diner, they leave their purse or cell on the table at the bar when they use the bathroom. It just seems like dialing things back a few decades in a lot of really great ways. But I also worry that the Delorean trip might take things back in other ways as well.

I'm the first and only person in my family (on either side) to get a college degree. I'm in a hell of a lot better place than anyone else on either side of my family or virtually anyone I grew up with, but despite that, I get put down by pretty much all of them and told in no uncertain terms about how "stupid" I am and how much of an ivory tower I live in. It's like the people in Kentucky lecturing the people in Massachusetts about how wrong they are politically, economically, and in ever other way, despite the fact that they can't keep their heads above water economically and states like MA have to bail them out to pay for their roads, hospitals, schools, etc. I just DO NOT want to move to a place where people are nice to me (condescendingly) but think that every choice that I make is wrong, despite the fact that it's proven to serve me, society, and the environment better than what they might choose.

Basically, I worry about living in another midwestern bubble where facts don't matter. Part of my metric on this is the hunting thing (which I can't stand.) Statistically, hunting is almost exactly the same as smoking. The smarter you are, the more idiotic it seems to be. If you're a smoker, you're almost guaranteed to have a high school diploma or less and make a low income. You smoke because you don't understand the negative consequences and don't want to. You do it to make yourself feel cool and fit in. Same for hunting, but instead of just making yourself suffer, you make others suffer as well. I don't want to live in a place where logically obvious choices are not only questioned, but held up to ridicule. When I was a kid, I got **** for not smoking or chewing tobacco, now I get **** for not killing animals or voting Republican (in the age of Trump). Really? Let's have that discussion.

MQT leans left socially, and votes in their own self-interest economically, but is surrounded by a sea of people who do the opposite and refuse to even entertain the idea that they're doing that. This situation would drive me insane.

I'm also looking for someplace with a REAL economic plan. Rural areas in the US are dying and remote rural areas are basically a write off. Places of competition, like Vermont, have people devoted to recruiting people with money and education. They subsidize visits, introduce you to employers, take your calls, invest heavily in universal high speed internet, etc. They know that in the next 20-30 years, they will either succeed or have their small populations sucked away by more economically viable areas. MQT seems fine to let things play out how it will play out with no plan at all. I know this will sound like utter *******ry, but I'm a guy who's in the top 7% in terms of net worth, with a great education, and who's more motivated to help an area that I love than to fill my own pockets, but I can't get an answer from city hall about possible placement. Vermont will be on the phone to numerous employers in the region to get a low level IT guy a job (because they know IT is a growth area) but MQT won't even pick up the phone for someone with a six figure resume and a few general questions.

Again, I love MQT, but it seems to work in every way to embrace unexamined perceptions about its future rather than buckling down, figuring **** out, and ensuring things going forward. I really wish that someone could give me some food for thought on the other side of the leder. But maybe the people there have a reason not to do that. I'm just hoping that someone might step forward and give me a reason to think that going with my heart might be better than going with my head.

You definitely put off an "East Coast pushy vibe" to me. We get it, you're smarter than your family, smarter than most of the people you know and don't understand hunting (I don't hunt but I understand the need for it). I probably wouldn't return your calls either. That s**t does not fly in the midwest.

Maybe try Madison, Wisconsin. It's the capitol of Wisconsin and has UW- Madison there. Beautiful city and might fit an East Coast personality better with all of the people employed at the University (like Ann Arbor).

[TRlaura]

Originally Posted by farrelli

So instead of telling me why you like MQT, you just insult me by calling me a troll? You'd probably be offended if you came to MA and some snotty blue blood called you a hillbilly, right? How about a little engagement?

I never called you a troll, you did. You also insulted everyone that hunts.
And unfortunately, I have project that I am working on in MA, so know the area quite well. Strange how the snotty blue bloods have never called me a hillbilly. Go figure....


You don't deserve Marquette and know absolutely nothing about it.
The city of BerkeleyBoulderMadison would welcome you with open arms. Even Burlington.


No need for any more "engagement".

[Marie Joseph]

Marquette is a beautiful area and is more affordable than many places in Vermont (also gorgeous) IMO.

There are several larger employers up there but really like any other place you move, it's best to have a backup plan just in case.

I also follow a vegetarian diet but it will be difficult for you if you judge people based on their political affiliations anywhere you go (not just Michigan) or whether they eat meat/hunt. I'm not trying to be a jerk about this but just saying that life will be more pleasant for both you and others if you are willing to open your mind. I don't eat meat, don't hunt and definitely don't vote GOP but people in the surrounding area where I live definitely do. They are not bad people simply because they do these things.

Marquette is not a large urban center but that is precisely part of its charm. The closest major cities to the area would be below the bride in 'troll' territory If easy access to major airports and other large cities is important to you then Marquette is probably not the best match.

The people are friendly and I never encountered the 'outsiderism' as I did in other parts of the country. As long as you go in with an open mind and without pretensions you won't have a problem at all.

Based on what you have said Vermont might be a better fit; still you should consider spending a couple of weeks in Marquette to get a feeling of what the area is like. I would also suggest further researching areas in Vermont that might fit your wants/needs. Definitely avoid jumping into a decision; I've done that before and seriously regretted it.