Thinking of moving to Marquette... (Grand Rapids, Grandville: rent, homes, to buy)
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So how are things in GR? TC is kind of inflated. A friend has a summer house in Petoskey and sings its songs. I'm starting to think of it, in an off hand way. Still northernly but maybe too Yuppie-ish for my taste. I know nothing of GR.
Grand Rapids summary is: Hipster/college town/techie core city of 200K people surrounded by relatively conservative suburbia. Housing costs significantly higher than they were five years ago, but it's still possible to hit a pretty sweet spot in terms of cost of living/quality of life. Core metro area is about a million people and you're 30-60 minutes from Lake Michigan and some pretty large chunks of state and federal public land.
I'm sure if I jumped into a time machine and talked to people about my views on slavery 150 years ago, or women's rights 70 years ago, or civil/black rights 60 years ago, or gay rights 30 years ago, I would have gotten the same reaction. I would have ended up ostracized or even lynched. That doesn't make those people right, it makes them even more immoral and even more idiotic. The fact that you can't see that? That says a lot.
In 50 years, people won't be eating meat. Our grandchildren will look on us the same way we look back on the people who engaged in the things listed above.
Wow. I'm 28, if I live to be 78 I will certainly still be eating meat.
Wow. I'm 28, if I live to be 78 I will certainly still be eating meat.
Maybe not. if enough people stop eating meat, pigs cows and chickens will go extinct (unless we keep eating eggs and milk). where would you get meat? You might have to eat your dog or a neighbor's cat.
By the way, it’s not the fact that you don’t hunt, it’s your attitude toward others who choose to do so. It is a huge part of life in the UP. When my husband lived there school actually shut down for a few days for deer hunting season.
This guy is very "sheltered" and I don't mean that in the classical sense, but in the sense that you see nowadays from people who spend too much time in academia. They just don't get out and see the real world or interact with "ordinary" or "common" folk. These are the same people who were surprised by some of the election results of 2016 because they were so isolated in their personal, academic, and media echo-chambers that they did not think it possible.
I'll agree that the worst part about this guy is not his own personal choices about the way he wants to live, but his disdain toward others who would make different choices. Worse still is that he will go into an area (and here going further with inquiring to live in said area) with established cultural norms and try to change them.
I personally don't hunt, and never have (and I don't care for fishing either), but as a boy scout and soldier I have been around guns all my life and have a healthy respect for them and people who do hunt. I have no problem seeing a deer in the back of a pickup truck or an ice chest full of trout. Heck, I'll eat the stuff! But getting back to the point, I am not going to go to Montana or Maine or Arizona and tell people that fly fishing is a "barbaric" practice, and that they should instead demand that other men "open their minds" to dying their hair pink and wear leather bikinis like they do in San Francisco and that in not doing so they are bigoted backwards people. Yes, how dare people hunt and fish in this wide open land!
These liberals have nothing but hate in their hearts for people (read: only White people in heartland America) choosing to live what I would consider to be very reasonable lifestyles while minding their own business and looking after their families. Would these same cultural marxists go to the Kalahari desert and tell the Bushmen people to not hunt Gazelle and that eating meat is an outdated practice? Ah, but it's perfectly acceptable to tell White Michiganders that their established cultural practices are "outdated and backwards"?
This guy is very "sheltered" and I don't mean that in the classical sense, but in the sense that you see nowadays from people who spend too much time in academia. They just don't get out and see the real world or interact with "ordinary" or "common" folk. These are the same people who were surprised by some of the election results of 2016 because they were so isolated in their personal, academic, and media echo-chambers that they did not think it possible.
I'll agree that the worst part about this guy is not his own personal choices about the way he wants to live, but his disdain toward others who would make different choices. Worse still is that he will go into an area (and here going further with inquiring to live in said area) with established cultural norms and try to change them.
I personally don't hunt, and never have (and I don't care for fishing either), but as a boy scout and soldier I have been around guns all my life and have a healthy respect for them and people who do hunt. I have no problem seeing a deer in the back of a pickup truck or an ice chest full of trout. Heck, I'll eat the stuff! But getting back to the point, I am not going to go to Montana or Maine or Arizona and tell people that fly fishing is a "barbaric" practice, and that they should instead demand that other men "open their minds" to dying their hair pink and wear leather bikinis like they do in San Francisco and that in not doing so they are bigoted backwards people. Yes, how dare people hunt and fish in this wide open land!
These liberals have nothing but hate in their hearts for people (read: only White people in heartland America) choosing to live what I would consider to be very reasonable lifestyles while minding their own business and looking after their families. Would these same cultural marxists go to the Kalahari desert and tell the Bushmen people to not hunt Gazelle and that eating meat is an outdated practice? Ah, but it's perfectly acceptable to tell White Michiganders that their established cultural practices are "outdated and backwards"?
Umm...no. To be clear, we've got a LOT of pink hair (although coral is the color of the moment). If everyone would stop pigeonholing everyone else, we'd probably be much better off.
I'm sure if I jumped into a time machine and talked to people about my views on slavery 150 years ago, or women's rights 70 years ago, or civil/black rights 60 years ago, or gay rights 30 years ago, I would have gotten the same reaction. I would have ended up ostracized or even lynched. That doesn't make those people right, it makes them even more immoral and even more idiotic. The fact that you can't see that? That says a lot.
In 50 years, people won't be eating meat. Our grandchildren will look on us the same way we look back on the people who engaged in the things listed above. There were always people who opposed slavery, supported women's rights, supported gay rights, etc. but they were always marginalized and mocked, even beaten and killed. That hardly made them wrong. Christ, Da Vinci was a vegetarian, the smartest guy in 1000 years, and got crap for it. And he was hardly the first. Plato was too, and he's the foundation of modern Western culture. he got crap too. History is FILLED with super smart, super ethical people, and they got crap for all manner of things which are opposed by the masses until the last possible moment of even minuscule justification.
The King family, for example, are vegan because they see the obvious correlation between the objectification of blacks (and the consequent horror show that ensued) and the objectification of non-human animals. They get crap from their followers who want to talk about inalienable rights, but not really think about it, and hit up Popeyes Chicken on the way home from a march about how oppressed and exploited they are. Psychology will tell you that once you inure yourself to the suffering of one class of beings, you inure yourself to all. The only real question about your actions is if you are causing harm to conscious beings. If you are doing that and chose to continue to do so, even if it's not convenient to stop, you're a horrible person. Full stop.
There's a difference between enslaving people, treating people as inferior because of race or gender or preference for partners, and something we're biologically "designed" for (I use the term design loosely here). We evolved as omnivores and meat has always been part of the human diet where it was available. We need certain nutrients that are only found in meat. That artificial supplements have been developed doesn't change the fact that we are naturally a meat eating species and our brains are wired to want it. If you choose to not eat meat that's fine. But judging others for eating it is wrong and not going to go over well. Eating chicken or beef is not on the same level as racism. Sorry, it isn't and someone needs to say that.
I can also tell you that hunting in VT isn't going away either. Numbers are down everywhere but it's not the "good" thing you think it is behind that. Moreover, it's not down as much as license sales might suggest because landowners in VT can hunt their own land without a license. Younger people are on average spending less time outdoors, people are more obese and unfit to be outdoors hiking or hunting, and interests are increasingly going towards consumerist desires for electronics, etc. I see less people out walking and hunting and more people riding ATV's through the woods now. I don't view that as a good trend. I'm a forester and have documented literally acres lost in woodlots to illegal ATV trails (including on one of the UP national forests when I worked there years ago for a summer by the way). I have constant trespass problems on my property in northeastern VT from them. Along with the destruction of wetlands, rare plants, and the harm caused to wildlife by the constant ATV traffic. Hunters as a group have been important in both VT and MI for conservation efforts. You may think them bad people for killing a deer or a grouse but the deer and grouse would have long ago been eliminated by development of their habitat had the hunters not pushed and paid to protect some of that land.
is Someone actually associating the rape of a human being with the hunting of an animal? I am trying to put my rage into words but I’m coming up short. Suffice it say that the OP has clearly never been raped.
This guy is very "sheltered" and I don't mean that in the classical sense, but in the sense that you see nowadays from people who spend too much time in academia. They just don't get out and see the real world or interact with "ordinary" or "common" folk. These are the same people who were surprised by some of the election results of 2016 because they were so isolated in their personal, academic, and media echo-chambers that they did not think it possible.
I'll agree that the worst part about this guy is not his own personal choices about the way he wants to live, but his disdain toward others who would make different choices. Worse still is that he will go into an area (and here going further with inquiring to live in said area) with established cultural norms and try to change them.
I personally don't hunt, and never have (and I don't care for fishing either), but as a boy scout and soldier I have been around guns all my life and have a healthy respect for them and people who do hunt. I have no problem seeing a deer in the back of a pickup truck or an ice chest full of trout. Heck, I'll eat the stuff! But getting back to the point, I am not going to go to Montana or Maine or Arizona and tell people that fly fishing is a "barbaric" practice, and that they should instead demand that other men "open their minds" to dying their hair pink and wear leather bikinis like they do in San Francisco and that in not doing so they are bigoted backwards people. Yes, how dare people hunt and fish in this wide open land!
These liberals have nothing but hate in their hearts for people (read: only White people in heartland America) choosing to live what I would consider to be very reasonable lifestyles while minding their own business and looking after their families. Would these same cultural marxists go to the Kalahari desert and tell the Bushmen people to not hunt Gazelle and that eating meat is an outdated practice? Ah, but it's perfectly acceptable to tell White Michiganders that their established cultural practices are "outdated and backwards"?
Yeah, you're right. It's all about academia and our isolation from the common folk. It's not at all about numbers or facts. And it's not any way related to ethics. The fact that other animals feel the same pain as you do, isn't the focus here. Nor is the fact that they feel the loss of friends and family members in much the same way as you do. And it's totally irrelevant that the consumption of animal products is the leading cause of water pollution in North America, the leading cause of antibiotic resistant bacteria, the first or second leading cause of global warming (depends on how to you do the math, but global warming isn't real anyway), the leading cause of cross-species viral mutation (AKA, the next plague), the leading cause of deforestation, and basically the leading cause of most of the challenges facing our planet today. None of it matters because those bleeding heart liberals have nothing in their hearts but hate, right? The facts don't matter. All that matters is how you "feel" about it. (And the Trump conservatives have the balls to throw the term "snowflake" around?) If this is the kind of vision that MQT and the UP have to offer, you'll be done in 2-3 decades. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the survival of the cruelest or most hard hearted, it means the survival of those most adaptable to change.
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