[danielj72]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Just look at the timeline or the latest school shooting in Newtown, CT and you will see how just a single person with a CCW and their weapon could have prevented every single child from being killed there. When the shooter got to the building he couldn't get in through the locked doors and had to shoot his way through one of the windows near the main office. One single person with one single firearm could have stopped the killer from gaining entry at that point. The school did everything right, except they were hamstrung by a "gun-free zone" that only law abiding citizens will obey.

This post is dead on. This issue is breaking down into the liberal vs conservative battle, as usuall. Liberals wish to surrender more freedoms and embrace gun control and more restrictions from our goverment. They believe that will stop this violence. Conservatives like me believe gun control does not work and support protecting the freedoms our founding fathers gauanteed us in the constitution. Conservatives believe armed americans will provide more protection from violence than the goverment ever could. Because we are so divided as a nation we will not likely come to any concenses that provides meaningfull solutions to this issue. The last time strict gun control was enacted (assult weapons ban 94) it cost the dems greatly and they were removed from power in congress, then the white house in 2000. The gun control of the 90s also lead to the rise of the milita movement, resentment toward the goverment rose dramatically. You cannot attack cherished freedoms without consequence. Because of all of this the gun control they passed was reversed. This is a never ending cycle, nothing will ever change. In my opinion arming willing school employees is a good idea. It is not perfect and will not stop all attacks, but it will stop many if not most of them. Certainly no one would have the time to shoot off 100 rounds or more if someone in that school had a pistol. There may be room for compromise here, some gun control that aims to further check the backgrounds and mental stability of potential gun buyers could be could be considered if ccw permits allowed guns into areas like schools in order to promote gun owning americans to protect themselves and others. One thing I would never agree to however is reinstating the assult weapons ban, or restricting legitimate gun ownership in any way. That would violate our constitution and the founding principles of our republic.

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Just look at the timeline for the latest school shooting in Newtown, CT and you will see how just a single person with a CCW and their weapon could have prevented every single child from being killed there. When the shooter got to the building he couldn't get in through the locked doors and had to shoot his way through one of the windows near the main office. One single person with one single firearm could have stopped the killer from gaining entry at that point. The school did everything right, except they were hamstrung by a "gun-free zone" that only law abiding citizens will obey.

You are absolutely correct. I sincerely wish more people could see things clearly without squinting through the fog of liberal propaganda.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

Are you making an argument or is this a pop quiz?

I'm still waiting to hear how arming an entire population of teachers and school workers will eliminate or even reduce a 1/150,000 chance of a mass school shooting.

How often do school shootings occur in Israel?

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by Bydand

Just look at the timeline for the latest school shooting in Newtown, CT and you will see how just a single person with a CCW and their weapon could have prevented every single child from being killed there. When the shooter got to the building he couldn't get in through the locked doors and had to shoot his way through one of the windows near the main office. One single person with one single firearm could have stopped the killer from gaining entry at that point. The school did everything right, except they were hamstrung by a "gun-free zone" that only law abiding citizens will obey.

And where is this well trained person with the CCW placed in the school? Do we keep them at the door all day? If so we might as well hire law enforcemnet or ex-MILITARY to guard the doors.
Assuming 20%-30% of elementary teachers are willing to carry, how do we plan for the unthinkable so that a gun carrying staff is alway in proximity of the shooter?
Getting the "drop" on an assailant is not the easiest thing to do. Once the shooter gains entrance and there are no CCW folks in the immediate are, the shooter has the advantage.
So what we really need are armed guards at the doors?

Now we can discuss middle school and high school CCW and the possibility of loosing possession of a weapon in the school which in itself could create a mass shooting within the building.
Just what I need, carrying a weapon in my high school, being jumped by 2-3 students all bigger than me and having my weapon used on me or others in the school??

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

And where is this well trained person with the CCW placed in the school? Do we keep them at the door all day? If so we might as well hire law enforcemnet or ex-MILITARY to guard the doors.

Who says one person per school, that would be up to the teachers and staff that hold CCW's if they chose to carry. I know several teachers who are either ex-military or ex-law enforcement, so the school districts have already hired ex-military. Why make it sound like it is a bad thing to do everything in a school districts power to protect the kids in their care?

Assuming 20%-30% of elementary teachers are willing to carry, how do we plan for the unthinkable so that a gun carrying staff is alway in proximity of the shooter?

You can't and you know it, that is a strawman argument. I can guarantee you though that with schools being "gun-free" zones, 100% of the time there will NOT be someone there to stop an attacker.

Getting the "drop" on an assailant is not the easiest thing to do. Once the shooter gains entrance and there are no CCW folks in the immediate are, the shooter has the advantage.

Not really. Why would someone who has had training in order to carry legally be at a dis-advantage over someone with a mental illness (most of the time) who has had no training? In every case though, the CCW holders would KNOW who the attacker was, the attacker would have NO idea who might be holding a firearm and trying to stop them... advantage - CCW holder.

So what we really need are armed guards at the doors?

Where do I say that?

Now we can discuss middle school and high school CCW and the possibility of loosing possession of a weapon in the school which in itself could create a mass shooting within the building.

Are you or someone else going to pass your weapon around like show-and-tell? Just how are you going to lose possession of your weapon exactly? If that is a real concern of yours, you might want to check just how secure concealed carry holsters are. I have rock climbed, kayaked, worked construction, white water rafted (and got dumped out a couple times), hiked, biked, slipped on the ice and fell, even gotten into a car accident all while carrying concealed and never once did a weapon even loosen up in the holsters. Walking around a school building and sitting at a desk sure won't make one fall out.

Even if for some unlikely reason that one DID fall out of a holster, why do you think every kid who picked it up would go on a wild shooting spree? Are you really that disillusioned with your students that you think they are all mass-murderers? If you are I am soooo glad you do not teach in my district, here the teachers think the kids have good in them and do their best to grow and nurture that goodness. 99.99% of kids would pick it up and hand it back to the teacher or take it to the office.

Just what I need, carrying a weapon in my high school, being jumped by 2-3 students all bigger than me and having my weapon used on me or others in the school??

How often have you been jumped at your school now? How many teachers have been assaulted at your school by 2 or 3 people who are bigger than they are? How are the bad students going to know you carry a weapon unless you advertise that fact? These arguments and questions you toss out simply don't make sense in a real World environment.
If this is a real fear of yours, then DON'T carry... pretty simple really. Just because you wouldn't personally carry one, why take that constitutional right away from those who would be more responsible and not show they are armed.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Bydand

As a parent with 4 kids spread out over 3 different school buildings I would absolutely let them attend a school where those who have a CCW can carry if they wish to. The whole point of having a CCW is that nobody knows if you have a weapon or not. If the person carrying a weapon in a school didn't flash it around, or brag, no-one would know who had one and who didn't. I have had my CCW in the past, and can guarantee nobody I ever met on the street or in a building knew I was legally armed. If nobody knows you have it, how on Earth are they going to take it away from you? That argument makes zero sense when you REALLY think about it.

Knock yourself out. I know if they decided to have a bunch of teachers carrying guns on their hips and keeping guns in their classrooms in our school, just about every parent would be down there protesting. And that would be the end of it.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by ram2

How often do school shootings occur in Israel?

This reminds me of the movie Airplane. Are you going to ask if I've ever spent time in a Turkish prison?


Everyone else who carries a weapon around in public, can you please wear some kind of sign so I can keep my distance. Assuming that people carry weapons with the same care and thoughtfulness as they drive cars, then I'm sure we're all safe. (obvious sarcasm)

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

You are absolutely correct. I sincerely wish more people could see things clearly without squinting through the fog of liberal propaganda.

What liberal propaganda are you referring to? Could you point me to the uber conservative propaganda then, so I can get the full picture?

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by magellan

This reminds me of the movie Airplane. Are you going to ask if I've ever spent time in a Turkish prison?


Everyone else who carries a weapon around in public, can you please wear some kind of sign so I can keep my distance. Assuming that people carry weapons with the same care and thoughtfulness as they drive cars, then I'm sure we're all safe. (obvious sarcasm)

Are you going to answer the original question or just make smart-assed comments?

As for those who carry in public... if they have to wear a sign so you will know, then they are doing it right and responsibly. You do know that right now in MI there are a lot of CCW holders, and you probably walk by dozens every day. How many times have you been shot so far by these people? Wow, I guess the liberal propaganda about MI turning into the wild west if CCW's were made shall-issue were just more BS fear tactics.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by magellan

Knock yourself out. I know if they decided to have a bunch of teachers carrying guns on their hips and keeping guns in their classrooms in our school, just about every parent would be down there protesting. And that would be the end of it.

I see you conveniently didn't post a smart-assed reply to the very next post about the timeline for the Newtown school shootings and how a single teacher or staff with a CCW could have saved every single child that was killed if carry in a school was allowed. What are the liberal left going to do about that simple fact? Come up with some "what-if" scenarios while totally ignoring the "Really-happened" scenario. Seems to be the course they usually take. Prefer to live in a what-if World instead of the one around them and deal with facts that don't support their thoughts.