[michigan83]

Or a petition to end term limits. Legislators gain a certain sense of "wisdom" and the ability to play well with others/compromise after being in office for a while. These guys and gals have none of it.

I think we should do the opposite!

Limit everyone to one term only. Remove the possibility of career politicians and pandering just for the sake of being re-elected.

It would be nice to see politicians act on some motive other than simply being re-elected as many times as possible. Like "doing the right thing even though it's tough," or something to that effect.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I think we should do the opposite!

Limit everyone to one term only. Remove the possibility of career politicians and pandering just for the sake of being re-elected.

It would be nice to see politicians act on some motive other than simply being re-elected as many times as possible. Like "doing the right thing even though it's tough," or something to that effect.

We're already suffering from a dysfunctional legislature, and you'd propose making it worse? Let me respectfully suggest that you don't have a clue about what it takes to be a state senator or representative. There is a long learning curve and the job is complex. You need to learn how various parts of state government function, what the rules and laws are that apply to those functions, get to know the people you're sitting with in the legislature and those employed in state government, and that's just for starters....before you can intelligently vote on issues or propose legislation.
It's easy to say "throw the bums out" and it's fun...fine. But Michigan is suffering from a LACK of expertise in the legislature now...reduce it even further and the results will be even worse, if that's possible.
I am not an elected official of any kind, but I've worked on projects in my area that have brought me into close touch with many state employees, mostly in the DNR and DEQ, and, yes, a few legislators. (some good, some thick as a brick) They ALL say that first term legislators are practically useless...they don't know their way around state government, don't know the laws and rules applicable to what they want to do, don't have the trust of their co-workers, on and on....and that they are largely ineffectual as a result until later in their first term, if then.
And you want to make that bad situation worse? We're seeing the results of term limits in long, protracted budget squabbles -among other issues- that only hold the state back and make MI look foolish.

[michigan83]

We're already suffering from a dysfunctional legislature, and you'd propose making it worse? Let me respectfully suggest that you don't have a clue about what it takes to be a state senator or representative. There is a long learning curve and the job is complex. You need to learn how various parts of state government function, what the rules and laws are that apply to those functions, get to know the people you're sitting with in the legislature and those employed in state government, and that's just for starters....before you can intelligently vote on issues or propose legislation.
It's easy to say "throw the bums out" and it's fun...fine. But Michigan is suffering from a LACK of expertise in the legislature now...reduce it even further and the results will be even worse, if that's possible.
I am not an elected official of any kind, but I've worked on projects in my area that have brought me into close touch with many state employees, mostly in the DNR and DEQ, and, yes, a few legislators. (some good, some thick as a brick) They ALL say that first term legislators are practically useless...they don't know their way around state government, don't know the laws and rules applicable to what they want to do, don't have the trust of their co-workers, on and on....and that they are largely ineffectual as a result until later in their first term, if then.
And you want to make that bad situation worse? We're seeing the results of term limits in long, protracted budget squabbles -among other issues- that only hold the state back and make MI look foolish.

Ouch. I think I just had my lunch handed to me.

BUT... I do maintain that the need to be re-elected IS an obstacle when it comes to accomplishing things in government. That's why they seem to slide along for years and years without fixing anything (i.e. Social Security). Making tough decisions makes for A) easy pickings in a political ad and B) cries of foul from the loudest voices.

No one is going to do something for the good of the state if it's unpopular. That is what a one-term limit would solve. What if it's a six-year term? They won't be inexperienced for the whole duration, will they? No. It wouldn't be a whole lot different than it is now.

Also... I like the idea of polititicians passing laws with the knowledge that they WILL be re-joining the rest of us in the "real world" after a set period of time. That's right... you might have to deal with the business environment, etc, that you helped create while working in government.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by John1960

Lawmakers scramble to reach tax increase deal; essential services in place

LANSING, Mich. - Michigan's state government partially shut down early Monday as the new fiscal year began with no budget deal in place to plug a $1.75 billion deficit.

The Senate voted to raise the state's income tax from 3.9 percent to 4.35 percent, a key step toward implementing a budget deal, hours after the measure passed the House. It now heads to Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who is expected to sign it.

Michigan’s state government partly shuts down - U.S. Life - MSNBC.com

I hate to tell you, this happened years ago...

[tecpatl]

I understand your concerns, and share them. I think a part-time legislature would make more sense than term limiting. How many people with good, upward moving careers could take a six year hiatus to serve, then return...to what?
Part-time is no panacea either...my second home in New Mexico uses a variety of this system and there are problems also, but it's much better than the pointless and downright harmful term limits.
Enjoy your lunch...lol

[Coldjensens]

California does that fairly frequently. They have a balanced budget reqruiement so that the spending and projected income must match or no budget. No deficit spending is permitted. Thus, they ofter dicker over thebudget past the deadline and occaisionally end up hading out provisional IOUs or partially shutting down or both. However now they are in more serious condition. The shrotfall was something like $55 billion (it keeps chaing) Next year will be no better, property taxes are falling, income tax money is falling, sale tax is down, less income everywhere, yet the expenses go up and up. They already cut everything that they believe that they can. What next?

The point is that California is in considerably worse shape as a governmental entitiy than Michigan is.

Neither state seems to get it. When you have no money, you cannot spend. When I have no money, I cut out everything but food, housing utilities and insurance. Cable TV, internet, washing cars, lawn care products, name brand food products, cell phones, vacations, every expense but essentials must be cut. that is just how it is.

The State must do the same thing. They will have to pare down to police/safety, fire protection, roads, sewers, and schools. They will have to close parks, rest stops, libraries, and shut down pretty much all of the social programs, research, etc. Free lunches at schools or discounted lunches are a great idea, but if we cannot afford them, it just cannot be done. (not sure how much of that is State vs. Federal). They may have to get rid of all the cell phones, cars, airplanes, limit internet to a few eemployees who absolutely need it, everything but the bare necessities. Sometimes I think that they have no understanding of what "essential" really means.

That is horrible, but they need to face the fact that they are broke. They overspent and overcommitted, now we have to go backwards. Improper stewardship of our tax dollars has led to this problem with no contingency and no pleasant way out. Yes it is horrible to break union deals or close rest stops, libraries, museums, and parks, but there is simply no choice.

Pork spending is over. They will have to break their secret promises that got them elected. That alone might get us back into balance for another year. Some of the lopsided deals with public employee unions may have to be broken. The spree is over and it is not coming back.

The politicians just cannot seem to accept this. they think that they can still spend spend spend.

[YAZ]

Wondering out loud if we'd get better service from our elected legislators if they were not paid.

Ya know, a "volunteer" type thing.

[Coldjensens]

It would probably be better if there were fewer of them.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

New Hampshire has a part time legislature, they are paid $100 per year. It is also appx. the 3rd largest legislative body in the world. Many many reps, 35 senators I believe. For a population of about 1.3 million.

One of the biggest problems in the US-America today IMHO is the career legislators.
While longer service helps them gain knowledge and develop expertise, they also gain corruption and develop very bad habits, like working for people other than their employers, the US/state taxpaying citizen.

Look at California's Assembly. They make (notice I didn't say "earn") as much as if not more than US members of congress. The idiot California voter keeps returning the same old free money/I'll buy your vote mindset bunch of lunatics to office, then they wonder why their state is at the top of the FUBAR list every year.

Unfortunately it would be largely up to the legislature to reform itself.
UNLESS some worthy citizens come up with a workable plan that limits pay, limits bennies, limits pensions to a miniscule amount, and develops a strong and honest citizen oversight board to root out, reveal, prosecute, and imprison the corrupt who "serve" the people.

To Serve Man. "IT'S A COOKBOOK!" Not so much science fiction as it was in the 50s, for those who recall the movie.

[tecpatl]

A large part of California's financial problems result from the citizens themselves. Passing ballot propositions that mandate expenses and limit govt. revenues are a favorite sport in Cal., and now those publicly supported chickens are coming home to roost.
Everyone, everywhere, wants more services, better roads, more police, shorter lines at DMV, nicer parks, on and on.....but the same people get in an uproar about paying taxes and fees to do it.
Kinda like the Grandpa-off-the-rails who stands up at a town hall meeting screaming about Socialist Medical Plans, then he sits back down on a wallet stuffed with Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security cards. It's those OTHER people that are causing the problem..
Ignorance of the type that keeps actions divorced from outcome is a universal human trait.