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Oakland is seriously not that good of a school... who are you kidding? What matters is how people perceive it, and it means nothing once you leave the state. Your optimism will wear off once you get your piece of paper. 6 months after you finish school you will be sitting there with the first loan payment due, making 20K a year. Have fun with that!
Last edited by KatieMarie10; 12-25-2010 at 07:34 PM..
I don't understand the point you're making. Are you saying that it's a "super big mess" because it costs more than 40k or are you saying that it's not so bad because he can get a job at 20k/yr or are you saying something else?
I'm saying that the amount of debt he has could be much, much worse and that graduating from college with $40,000 of debt is not abnormal.
The problem with the national economy is losing comparative advantage. In other words, it’s more efficient to have jobs done in nations were the cost of doing business is less. Many jobs initially left Michigan for right-to-work states in the South to avoid high union cost and higher operating cost up North. However, this was just a pit stop on the path of least resistance to profit. So the arbitrage between the North and South which shifted jobs to the South from the North has been replaced by the arbitrage between the South and China, India and the like.
In light of that, what’s important is TRENDS. The loss of comparative advantage as a nation hit is manufacturing core first and prior to that the North’s loss of Comparative advantage to the South drained opportunities from places like Michigan in favor of cheap labor and other cost in the South. The South benefited from its advantages over the North and gained millions of jobs and people. Now, however, the South has fallen victim to cheaper cost in Mexico, China and other places. So the trend is that the South will experience what the North experienced in regards to job losses.
While there used to be MANY states that had much more opportunity than Michigan early in the decade, many states are right in the ball park with Michigan now. Michigan has actually outperformed many states in the last year. Read this article:
If this country is going to get its act together….it is going to have to do it with the REAL economy….and that’s manufacturing and with Michigan hitting bottom….it forced changes in the union structure of the State giving the state a less of a disadvantage. If Michigan does not recover....the nation will not recover!
Yes....people have the free will and right to move wherever they want. My point is that the main people I hear biiichin about what a dump Detroit is are white folks. There was nothing ever going on in Detroits black community that was not going on in the black communities of every major city in the US. The difference is that those white folks did not all run to the suburbs and salivate over the decline of Detroit and a black leadership that it despised (Coleman Young).
The white population in Detroit is at 7% of its peak. The black population in Detroit is at around 80% of its peak (and that peak f 780,000 was reached in 2002). So to attempt to draw a comparison and suggest that blacks were moving out of Detroit in a rate worth mentioning in the same breath as the white exodus is asnine.
You said it there: "a black leadership that it despised (Coleman Young)" which could be the difference between the other major cities. You get race baiters like Young that stir up racial tension and spawn "hating whitey" attitudes, there will be some backlash. Coleman turned off white people and they flew the coop. The Detroit voters must have been fine with that because they kept voting him in and Detroit kept sinking. Choices were made, consequences happened. The whites then didn't care about Detroit's plight or even cheered it (the "you get what you asked for" attitude). Is it right? Well, aside from a magnanimous few, it's basic human nature to wish ill on those who you perceive to be against you. A guy like Dave Bing might have the personality and ideas to reverse the trend a little bit but he's got quite a mountain to climb.
It's Detroit's "can't-do" attitude. Detroit will never be fixed. Never. I used to think maybe it would, but there's just too much apathy from all sides. Suburbanites would just as soon see the city slide into the river, with the possible exception of the sports arenas and the casinos. Detroit the city is almost completely irrelevant now. It has sports arenas but not everyone cares, myself included. It has a convention hall whose roof leaks water on the exhibits. I have not been to the Auto Show in several years. It is completely stupid to hold it when Detroit's weather is at its worst. It has a good art museum, but seriously, who really cares about the humanities around here? Past that, there's not much in the city to hold the average suburbanite's interest.
Anyways, enough of my rant.
Dear Original Poster:
Journalism is not a viable field to enter at this point. A friend of mine got a journalism degree from another B-grade metro Detroit university a few years ago...interned at a newspaper you have heard of, and then after a boatload of interviews got a job as a cub reporter in some hick town an hour west of here and the gig ended up not lasting all that long anyways. The problem with newspaper jobs nowadays is not just that people are not willing to buy a newspaper, but that even the largest newspaper companies are not willing to pay for talent.
Do I pay for news? Very seldom...I usually pick up a Blade when I'm in Toledo, I read The Globe and Mail, the Toronto Star, and the National Post whilst in Toronto, and I read the Review-Journal nearly every day when I'm in Las Vegas, but I have purchased a Free Press exactly once all year, and I have not purchased a single Macomb Daily. One of my co-workers throws his out in the trashcan and I just read (and recycle) that one; the only reasons I read the Daily are to read Soundoff and all the idiotic things Macomb people say, to read the foreclosure notices in the classifieds that go on for pages nowadays, and to read the obituaries to see if one of my estranged grandparents has croaked. I used to buy an occasional Free Press or News a couple of years ago when they could be had for a quarter at some newsstands (Farmer Jack, some CVS) but now that they're a dollar, it was nice knowing them. That's highway robbery. Paying for news online? Never. I get most of my news from various AM talk stations (Windsor 800, Detroit 950, Chicago 780, Cleveland 1100, NYC 880, Philly 1060), Matt Drudge, and occasionally Global Toronto (channel 20 on my Comcast). Getting news online for free? Sure, I have the LV R-J, the Blade, the Plain Dealer, the Grosse Pointe News, and Global TV Toronto on my Facebook newsfeed. As I was saying, I don't think there's demand for paid news anymore and that's not a Michigan problem, that's a national problem.
You said it there: "a black leadership that it despised (Coleman Young)" which could be the difference between the other major cities. You get race baiters like Young that stir up racial tension and spawn "hating whitey" attitudes, there will be some backlash. Coleman turned off white people and they flew the coop. The Detroit voters must have been fine with that because they kept voting him in and Detroit kept sinking. Choices were made, consequences happened. The whites then didn't care about Detroit's plight or even cheered it (the "you get what you asked for" attitude). Is it right? Well, aside from a magnanimous few, it's basic human nature to wish ill on those who you perceive to be against you. A guy like Dave Bing might have the personality and ideas to reverse the trend a little bit but he's got quite a mountain to climb.
I think the irrational perceptions and projection of whites, during the Coleman Young era, is expemplified by the statemen by Young telling criminals to "hit 8-mile". Whites then claimed that this was an example of Young encouraging blacks to go commit crime in the suburbs(against whites)...which is total BS. It was simply a metaphor telling criminals that they better run because a new mayor was taking over. Coleman Young was one of the first black mayors of a major city and many whites back then were simply uncomfortable living under black leadership.....period. People wanted him to fail and for him to fail the city had to fail. What was his crime? He simply spoke the truth about the racial reality in the nation and the Detroit area. To pretend that the nation and region was not racist during that time is to have ones head stuck in the sand. He called out what he saw and he did not apologize for it.....which inspired many of the black residents, many former residents of the South who found it refreshing that a black man would stand up as he did and speak against power. Of course, many white folks hated him for the same reason that black folks loved him.
It's Detroit's "can't-do" attitude. Detroit will never be fixed. Never. I used to think maybe it would, but there's just too much apathy from all sides. Suburbanites would just as soon see the city slide into the river, with the possible exception of the sports arenas and the casinos. Detroit the city is almost completely irrelevant now. It has sports arenas but not everyone cares, myself included. It has a convention hall whose roof leaks water on the exhibits. I have not been to the Auto Show in several years. It is completely stupid to hold it when Detroit's weather is at its worst. It has a good art museum, but seriously, who really cares about the humanities around here? Past that, there's not much in the city to hold the average suburbanite's interest.
Anyways, enough of my rant.
Wow! That is a case book study in the pyschology of "Projecting" and self reinforced prophecy. In other words.....people LIKE YOU is why the region has no hope. The people who actually believe like you are the people that ensures that the city will struggle. There are people who MAKE **** HAPPEN....and people who WAIT FOR **** TO HAPPEN (and complain when its not). Its easy to see what camp you are coming from.
Wow! That is a case book study in the pyschology of "Projecting" and self reinforced prophecy. In other words.....people LIKE YOU is why the region has no hope. The people who actually believe like you are the people that ensures that the city will struggle. There are people who MAKE **** HAPPEN....and people who WAIT FOR **** TO HAPPEN (and complain when its not). Its easy to see what camp you are coming from.
I totally agree that Detroit is beyond hope. I used to think there was some chance, but the underlying problems are so profound that in reality it doesn't seem likely. To give an example, I found a loft downtown that was absolutely gorgeous, hardwood floors, granite countertops, new stainless steel appliances, huge, airy... an authentic industrial-style loft with a rooftop overlooking breaktaking views of the Ambassador Bridge. All for 100K. And I still wouldn't buy it at that price. Why? Because I, as a successful white female would not be welcomed down there. The crime is underreported and completely out of control. The politicians and council are corrupt. And there's no grocery store. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you have a property like that, walking distance to all the major venues... absolutely beautiful, spacious, everything in it high-end... and still people don't want it. The same type of property would go for 5 million in NYC, but because of where it's located it sits abandoned even though it's priced for a song.
I totally agree that Detroit is beyond hope. I used to think there was some chance, but the underlying problems are so profound that in reality it doesn't seem likely. To give an example, I found a loft downtown that was absolutely gorgeous, hardwood floors, granite countertops, new stainless steel appliances, huge, airy... an authentic industrial-style loft with a rooftop overlooking breaktaking views of the Ambassador Bridge. All for 100K. And I still wouldn't buy it at that price. Why? Because I, as a successful white female would not be welcomed down there. The crime is underreported and completely out of control. The politicians and council are corrupt. And there's no grocery store. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you have a property like that, walking distance to all the major venues... absolutely beautiful, spacious, everything in it high-end... and still people don't want it. The same type of property would go for 5 million in NYC, but because of where it's located it sits abandoned even though it's priced for a song.
Let’s be frank here. What people like you are saying is that you have no interest or need for Detroit to turn around. Does anyone remember their history about post WWII Europe and how devastated it was? There was a Marshall Plan to rebuilt Europe and it happened. More importantly, Europe was rebuilt because the US believed in the people in Europe, had a vested interest in the strength and stability of Europe and profited from the rebirth of Europe. Hence, there was a will and hence they found a way to make it happen.
The thing is this. Why try to make the city of Detroit what one would like it to be when one can simply move to a city that already has what it is looking for? People who are looking for a certain type of urban lifestyle can move to Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, New York, Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis. In all those cities you can find urban white folks residing in these cities, shopping in these cities and helping to invigorate these cities. So when one can move to what they desire there is no need to create it or recreate it in Detroit.
In reading your post I see a lot of things that don’t add up. For example, you say that crime is underreported. I ask you how you could KNOW this if it’s not being reported. You don’t actually live there to know. Of course, absolutely NO city reports all crimes in the media. I challenge you to find me any major city that the media has time to report every single crime that manifest in its city. You cannot. If you are saying that violent crime is underreported by the police department, again, how do YOU KNOW? Are you keeping your own independent database on Detroit’s crime? Furthermore, how do you know that such is unique or endemic to Detroit and not all major cities?
Also, you mean to tell me that a successful white woman would not be welcome in the city of Detroit? Well, at least stereotypes are changing because in the past the perception was that black men salivated over white women. So now I guess the “new ignorance” is that a white woman is not wanted in a city made predominately black by whites demonstrating that they did not want to live around blacks and a city run by blacks. That’s what kills me. Whites move away from blacks, creating a nearly 90% black city as a result of white exodus……and now whites are saying that its blacks that don’t want them in the city? Look at how Southfield went from majority white to majority black and look at how the public schools in Southfield are nearly all black. I guess high murder and violent crime rate of blacks in Southfield drove whites away from that city too.
The truth is that black folks are not the problem here. Detroit does not have a “different” type of black folks. They are no different than blacks in Chicago, Philadelphia, New York or any other vibrant major city in America that whites live, work and play in much higher percentages than in Detroit. The problem in Detroit is the attitudes of whites in the Detroit area and Michigan in general.
I totally agree that Detroit is beyond hope. I used to think there was some chance, but the underlying problems are so profound that in reality it doesn't seem likely. To give an example, I found a loft downtown that was absolutely gorgeous, hardwood floors, granite countertops, new stainless steel appliances, huge, airy... an authentic industrial-style loft with a rooftop overlooking breaktaking views of the Ambassador Bridge. All for 100K. And I still wouldn't buy it at that price. Why? Because I, as a successful white female would not be welcomed down there. The crime is underreported and completely out of control. The politicians and council are corrupt. And there's no grocery store. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when you have a property like that, walking distance to all the major venues... absolutely beautiful, spacious, everything in it high-end... and still people don't want it. The same type of property would go for 5 million in NYC, but because of where it's located it sits abandoned even though it's priced for a song.
I'm white and travel all over Detroit for work and I'm accepted. I also ride my bike on the bike trails in Detroit and black people give a friendly hello nod when I pass by them.
Wow! That is a case book study in the pyschology of "Projecting" and self reinforced prophecy. In other words.....people LIKE YOU is why the region has no hope. The people who actually believe like you are the people that ensures that the city will struggle. There are people who MAKE **** HAPPEN....and people who WAIT FOR **** TO HAPPEN (and complain when its not). Its easy to see what camp you are coming from.
I'm actually not as bad as you think. I am anti-Detroit and anti-region to an extent but if I weren't married I might actually live in the city...$20K buys a nice house around 8 and Kelly nowadays, but I wouldn't make my wife live there. She grew up on the far east side not all that long ago and watched it go to heck in a handbasket over the course of a few years. We drove through down her old street just last night and although it looks better than it did a couple of years ago, it's still not what it was...and then we drove by a house a few blocks away (still a fairly decent street) that I wanted to buy a few years ago at $110K and it's sitting empty, graffiti on the garage...Mack Avenue something-or-others. It's really kind of sad for her to see all of it. As for my family, we never lived in Detroit so we don't have those old memories. Much of Detroit is a rotten place, and regrettably (and this is what makes me mad seeing it) that which is not yet rotten is being allowed to rot. Last night I also drove by the old Holy Cross Hospital (E. Outer near Van Dyke)...it ought to be a crime that Outer Drive be allowed to go bad. The housing stock is amazing on Outer Drive, nearly citywide. Tudor Revivals, Colonial Revivals, bungalows...good stuff from 1930 or so to about 1965, depending on where you're at. That's what bothers me most. I don't care about downtown. I go there for an occasional chili dog at Lafayette or American (sometimes one after the other in some sort of a taste test) or some Chinese takeout at Jefferson and Chene, but I don't do any other business downtown. I don't have to. I don't care for Detroit sports teams, so I've never been to Ford Field and I've only been to Comerica Park a couple of times (and I've never paid for the ticket or for parking). We'll occasionally stop into the casino for a buffet and to walk around, visit the art museum here and there, or see something at the Fisher, but I haven't been in a couple of years. The average suburbanite doesn't have to do anything downtown, either, if he doesn't want to, unless he lives in Wayne County, and that is Detroit's downfall.
As for changing my mind and getting me to quit "projecting," I dare you, but there's 999,999 just like me.
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