[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The problem is that you are PROJECTING. You are accusing me of being guilty of treating Grand Rapids......AS YOU VIEW AND TREAT DETROIT. If you are not aware of all the Investment and Rehab in Detroit over the last 10 years.....then you are not qualified to condemn it as you do.....based upon the fact that you say the existence of Rehab in Grand Rapids overrides or excuses the not so good that exists. Mike Illitich has invested Millions, if not Billions in Detroit. There is currently major companies, Like Quicken Loans, that are moving headquarters from Suburban Detroit down into the City. THe Brush Park Area is slowly being Rehabed....the old Cass Corridor (now Midtown) is being gentrified and rehabed. The New Tiger Stadium....the new Lions Stadium, MGM Grand, Greek Town, and Moter City Casinons and Hotels......Wayne State Univerisy Investment. Plenty of communities are having new housing and lofts created in Detroit also. If you took all the investments in commercial and residential areas in Detroit and plop them down in Grand Rapids it would stand out greatly. However, In a city of 135 square miles in which half its former residents have left.....its not appreciated by people like you. You are a Grand Rapids BOOSTER and a Detroit DENIGRATOR. That is what is clear to me.

That rehab in Grand Rapids does not change the rate of poverty or unemployment or crime that exists in those areas. In fact, what is going on in Grand Rapids is simply gentrification. Eventually the inner-city will property vallues will rise from the return of the gentry and the poor will be pushed out into rental communities in the suburbs.....like Kentwood. Thats the master plan manifesting in most cities in America today. American cities are going to go the way of Europe in which the middle class live in the central cities and the poor live in the suburbs. Suburban and exurban living is just not feasable any longer in a world in which fuel prices will continue to rise and nations seek ways to reduces consumption via high density living and mass transit. That means inner or central city living and that means the the current occupants of those areas will eventually be displaced as rents and mortages get to high.....like what happened in Heritage Hills, Eastown and other Gentrified areas of Grand Rapids.

I am not going to get into a picture pizzing contest with you.....but I can google a whole lot of rehab and investment in Detroit. However, more importantly......YOU COULD DO....if you WANTED to see that side of Detroit.

Ha, I just saw your added comments. I still don't even understand what your point of this whole thread was. Actually, I've been doing this long enough that I do know, but you won't admit it. Booster, denigrater, whatever. I know what you're all about.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Every condition there is EVOLVED into what it is. There is no MYSTERY why things are the way they are. Black behavior is a REACTION....like all other behavior, to actions which triggered it over time. There is 300 years of documented actions and all actions manifest reaction. People just refuse to follow the dots of history because it reveals causations that America is still not maure enough to deal with. Its only a MYSTERY if one refuses to see the truth. Just in case you don't know..... poverty has always been much worse in this nation for blacks percentage wise. That was long, long before black males started going to prison. Hence, if black poverty existed at high levels before black incarceration did.....its hardly plausible that black poverty is rooted in black male imprisonment. Black male rate of imprisonment is due to the war on drugs being waged largly in the black community, while the majority of users of illegal drugs are white. Do the research yourself.

The bottom line is that as an African American.......I take it personal when I see the pattern of condemnation being directed at majority black cities. When people condemn areas of Grand Rapids.....its most often SE....the areas with the highest concentrations of blacks.

So which came first, that people condemned those areas, or that those areas are often worthy of being condemned? (highest crime rates, worst conditions).

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by magellan

I know all about that stuff. I've seen the casinos and stadiums personally and think, meh, it's a start. It at least gets suburbanites downtown for a couple hours before they turn around and head back to Novi. That's where Grand Rapids was about 15 - 18 years ago, with a lot of concentration on downtown cultural venues. Next came the housing, and then it spread to the near downtown neighborhoods.

I've been to Corktown, which a lot of people had told me about. Is there anything new there other than Slow's? And a big vacant lot where Tiger Stadium was? Maybe I missed it all, as it was dark outside.

And I didn't say the good going on in GR overrides the bad.

Have you ever heard of non verbal communication? You should realize that part of human nature is to be deceptive. Humans are intelligent enough not to fall into known verbal traps that carry social stigma ramifications if lamented explicitly. For example, you will not find a pedophile openly expressing with strangers his or her attractions to children. However, that does not mean that the person is thus not as such just because no one ever heard them say explicitly that they like children (in the wrong way). I understand the human propensity for being vague and deceptive and hence not saying things. One has to have the ability to read between the lines in a world hell bent on deception. In such a world, people are not going to address the reasoning that leads them to condemn cities that are majority black, while leaving out any white places from their "worst cities" list.

I just look for patterns....and yours is clear.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Have you ever heard of non verbal communication? You should realize that part of human nature is to be deceptive. Humans are intelligent enough not to fall into known verbal traps that carry social stigma ramifications if lamented explicitly. For example, you will not find a pedophile openly expressing with strangers his or her attractions to children. However, that does not mean that the person is thus not as such just because no one ever heard them say explicitly that they like children (in the wrong way). I understand the human propensity for being vague and deceptive and hence not saying things. One has to have the ability to read between the lines in a world hell bent on deception. In such a world, people are not going to address the reasoning that leads them to condemn cities that are majority black, while leaving out any white places from their "worst cities" list.

I just look for patterns....and yours is clear.

Good, you figured out I hate Detroit because it's bringing the whole State down with it. Congrats.

So when you visited Grand Rapids, did you see any of the project I showed, or were you just trying to show Grand Rapids in a negative light because I was bashing Detroit in the Detroit section a few months ago?

Never mind, topic closed. One of the benefits of being the moderator.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by magellan

So which came first, that people condemned those areas, or that those areas are often worthy of being condemned? (highest crime rates, worst conditions).

Well...to hear you tell it what is true for the WHOLE must be true of all its PARTS. Hence, Grand Rapids does not or should not have ANY areas worthy of condemnation because they are part of GRAND RAPIDS, which is worthy of praise.

All I can tell you is the history. I can tell you that those areas used to be all white. Then there was a large influx of African American escaping the Jim Crow and peonage share cropping of the South and moved up North and integrated areas on the West Side then SE Grand Rapids. I don't know if those areas were condemned before blacks started moving in. However, I do now that that the areas used to be white and whites moved out and the area became black and the target of denigration......just like what happened to Detroit overall. Is my recount of history incorrect? Again.....every phenomenon evolved into what it is today. Hence, one cannot understand the TRUTH unless they are willing to traverse history.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Well...to hear you tell it what is true for the WHOLE must be true of all its PARTS. Hence, Grand Rapids does not or should not have ANY areas worthy of condemnation because they are part of GRAND RAPIDS, which is worthy of praise.

All I can tell you is the history. I can tell you that those areas used to be all white. Then there was a large influx of African American escaping the Jim Crow and peonage share cropping of the South and moved up North and integrated areas on the West Side then SE Grand Rapids. I don't know if those areas were condemned before blacks started moving in. However, I do now that that the areas used to be white and whites moved out and the area became black and the target of denigration......just like what happened to Detroit overall. Is my recount of history incorrect? Again.....every phenomenon evolved into what it is today. Hence, one cannot understand the TRUTH unless they are willing to traverse history.

Again, topic closed. You started this with an agenda to show Grand Rapids in a bad light, for no other reason than trolling for a fight. And you can't even fess up that you got called on the carpet.