[yls]

Hi,
I have a Nissan Xterra....it's just the standard one, not a 4 wheel drive. The other car we have is a Mazda 6 and it is all-wheel drive. We grew up in the S and have ZERO winter driving experience. First of all can you tell us what to expect in the AA region? (probably living in the outlying areas) Is learning how to drive in winter conditions easy? Any tips?
Do you need special snow tires? Or will all-season tires be ok? And specifically what about the SUV? Is that going to be safe? Someone was saying that would't work in MI in winter so now I'm wondering. We will probably come in November right when the weather starts to turn!
Thanks so much!

[michsnowlvr]

First of all, welcome to MI! The Ann Arbor area is beautiful. When you say living in "outlying areas", if by that you mean the country, it could get a bit dicey on the roads as many rural roads arent maintained as well as main roads. I am no car expert so someone else may chime in on what kind of tires. The Ann Arbor area receives 45-50 inches of snow in an average winter, but it could be as little as 20-25 inches in a very mild winter or as much as 85-100 inches in a rough winter. To be safe, Id say bank on somewhere in the vicinity of the average. Snow is beautiful, so if you are careful you may really enjoy!

[Coldjensens]

There are a lot of simlar threads that you can look at.

Ann Arbor area does not get a ton of snow. We measure snow in inches here, not in feet (like they do up north). The main roads get salted fairly quickly and shortly after the salt is out, any vehicle will do fine. It is only in the heavy snows, or icy conditions, or before the salt has been laid out and started to work that you need to worry about. Sometimes it will start snowing just before you need to drive somewhere and you will end up driving in havy snow, slush, or ice. It is not that common in this area. Usually, you can figure on no more than 15 -20 times that you will have to drive in really bad conditions in a given year. (Unless you go up north, then figure on every day)

Your AWD vehicle should be fine. Even front wheel drive vehicles are usually fine. It is RWD vehicles that have trouble, especially if they are over powered and/or heavy in front and light in the back.

Snow tires make a big difference. Whether it is worth the cost depends on how much you need to drive in snowy conditions. You could always just share the AWD vehicle when it is snowy and the roads have not been salted yet. We do not bother with snow tires on most of our vehicles. We have two that are rear wheel drive, one of which we will put snow tires on (they do make make snow tires for the other one). We also have a large heavy RWD Van but it does not need snow tires. We never have any trouble with it, except in the very rare occaisions where you are not going anywhere without 4 x 4. Our FWD minivan does not have any torble except those 4x4 only days which are two or three days of the year, maybe.

Your best bet is to practice in a parking lot after a snowfall. Get used to how a car handles in snow and practice putting it into a skid and correcting it without overcorrecting. Do this at least 10 -20 times until you are comfortable with it. Then practice stopping. Get used to how much you slide. Every chance you get, practice a bit more even if you ahve been driving in snow for a few days. Conditions vary and you need to learn how to deal with different conditions. It is not hard. My 18 y.o. daughters figured it out after a few days and they are pretty terrible drivers even in good conditions.

The biggest thing that you need to do in the snow or ice is to leave a lot of space between your car and the car in front of you. I have slid over 100 feet while trying to stop at a light, even with antilock brakes. Leave a ton of space.

Another critical thing to do is to start to slow down early. Creep up to the light if you know that it will or may turn red before you get to it.

Go slow on turns and curves.

Do not drive anywhere near speed limits when it is slick, espceially black ice. In some conditions, you should go no moe than 15 mph, but those are rare. Initially, stay 5-10 mph below speed limits. Watch what other cars are doing. Do nto copy the idiots who are racing along when everyone else is creeping along. You will see the idiot soon enough in a ditch or wrapped around a tree.

Learn to pump your brakes. Antilock braking systems sometimes fail and lock up. You can also do a better job than your automatic antilock system once you learn the physics.


Sometimes, you must not stop moving. That means that you may have to pause at a stop sign or light rather than stopping. THis is illegal, but in rare conditions (black ice) you can slide right off the road if you stop completely. This is because the road is crowned for drainage and if it is slick enough, you will slide sideways into the ditch if you stop. This is very very rare. You need both a highly crowned road and super slick conditions.

Also when the snow or slush is deep, sometimes it is better to not stop. You cna get stuck when you try to get moving again. Thus, you time the lights so that you creep up to a red light and keep moving slowly until it turns green. Again this is a fairly rare condition.

If you get stuck, do not just spin your wheels. You cna burn up your tires, you can sink your car in deeper, you cna get into an accident if the tires do find something to grab. INstead rock back and forth, shifting quickly from forward to reverse. Get the car into a rocking rythm and eventyually you should get moving.

Put the following things in your car:

Windshied scraper and brush.
Spare gloves and hat.
Several hand warmers ($1 per pack at most stores)
A shovel.

Blanket.

Flashlight. (Batteries stored outside the flashlight - not in it)

Boots.

Other good options:

A set of metal or plastic strips that provide traction. THe metal ones look like diamond lath (if you know what that is).

Bags of salt or sand. This can both help provide weight over the rear wheels in RWD vehicles and provide traction or melt snow/ice if you get stuck. Keep in mind that you do nto want the salt to leak out inside your car. It cna cause rust over time (years) if not completely cleaned up.

Flares.

Tow strap. Sometimes you can find a 4x4 to help you, but they do not have a strap. If you have your own it can mean the difference between getting home soon or hours later.

AAA card.

Cell Phone.

Big bright light that plugs ito your lighter outlet.

Tool kit and duct tape (if you know how to use them).

A book (to read if you end up wiating for someone to come along to help you).

Blanket, gloves etc, are really important. If you get caught out somewhere and have to walk, you can be seriously injured or even die from the cold if you are unprepared. It is extremely rare, but it happens. If you are going to work or to dinner or something, you are not going to be dressed sufficiently for a long walk in -20 windy show conditions.

[michmoldman]

Yeah...what Coldjensons said....and welcome to Michigan! Most years AA wont get more then 40-50" of snow. Winter in the parts of Mi. that dont get a lot of snow (like AA) can be kinda boring, so be prepared to find some activities to make the winter go by faster. If you find you like the snow...you can always head to the parts of MI. that get tons...and have a blast doing all kinds of things. Good luck!

[jeeg]

We only have FWD vehicles, have never used snow tires (just all-season radials), and have lived here for decades. Follow ColdJensens advice on driving in the winter and you'll be fine.

Welcome to this beautiful state!!

[yls]

"Your AWD vehicle should be fine. Even front wheel drive vehicles are usually fine. It is RWD vehicles that have trouble, especially if they are over powered and/or heavy in front and light in the back."

Yes, well the Nissan Xterra is kind of like this..........It's RWD and it's heavier up front. When it rains here I have to be very careful as I can fish-tail when going on curves,etc. The person who said it wouldn't be good for MI said you could put sandbags in the back to weigh it down.
I really don't want to get rid of my car and I am a stay-at-home mom but we do go out during the day....obviously if it's horrible I'll just have to skip it.
If I put snow-tires on the RWD car does that make a big difference?

BTW, thanks so much for all the great details you went into......VERY helpful.

[jeeg]

Yes, it's very common to put filled sand bags in the back of RWD vehicles.

I really don't think you'll have a problem in the AA area. On the rare days when it DOES snow a lot..... just don't go out until the plows have had a chance to clear the roads and put salt down.

Also make sure you always keep at least a weeks supply of everything in your home so that you don't have to go out during the heavy snow days.

[Coldjensens]

My primary car is a Camaro Z28. It is heavy in front, light in the back and majorly overpowered. It is probably one of the worst cars ever made for driving in the snow. Oh and that is the car that they no not make snow tires to fit. Snow tires help a lot.

I have a misreable time with the Camaro in the winter and I hope to avoid driving it this winter. Even with weight in the back I get stuck constantly. (I think it would get stuck if a kid spilled a slushy in the street during the summer). It is truely awful to drive in snow or ice conditions. Your truck may create simlar problems. Fortunatley, it is only 20 -30 days each winter that are really bad.

We have a Ford Ranger that is only rwd. It is not great in the snow but much better than the camaro. With snow tires and some weight in the bed it does not do too badly. Usually we just let the bed fill up with ice to provide weight. Sometimes we put salt or sand back there.

If your truck is simlar to a ranger, you might be ok. Just drive the AWD vehicle as often as you can, expecially when it is slick. I cannot express how much I miss my 4x4 F-150 that died last winter. It is really nice to have the 4x4 option when you need it even though it is not that often.

[wagonman76]

Good tips so far.One thing I found that helps get unstuck easily is a roll of old carpet. Often found for free and just throw it out at the end of the season. (Another use for old carpet is cut it into a solid floormat that spans both sides of the car, saves your factory carpet from a lot of crud and again just throw it out at the end of the season.) I helped an old lady get up the hill by my house once by just laying the carpet in front of the wheels and going about a car length at a time. Another thing that works wonders is a couple of boards and a floor jack (which is a good idea anyway for changing a tire on soft ground). Saves a lot of time and backache trying to shovel out from under the car subframe and getting out of ruts. I do this whenever I get my snowplow hung up in the driveway. I'll never dig and push again. The jack and boards got me out of a sand pit on a back road once too.I run snows on anything I drive in the winter. I spent years with all seasons but once you get snows you'll never go back. It's not just the tread, they're made of a different rubber that grips better at low temperatures and from what I hear downstate gets less snow but more ice. If the car is dedicated for winter I just leave them on. If I drive it year round then I get a cheap set of junkyard wheels and mount the snows on them and take them off in the summer. Saves at least $80 a year over remounting back and forth. Plus both sets will last longer that way so the overall cost is less.Yes a RWD vehicle is the worst thing to have in snow country, even worse if it's light in the back. At the very least, load up the back with a couple hundred lbs or so. I do this on my FWD cars because it helps a lot with stability.And better to slow down. I personally know a lot of fools who drive like it's summer, and every one of them eventually ends up way off in the ditch or wrapped around a tree or telephone pole. One memorable time is when the freeway was pretty icy and I was coming back from downstate going 45 because of conditions. A cop was behind me and rode my tail like usual while he ran my plate, then gunned it to go around me like usual and in my rearview mirror I watched him spin out into the ditch.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

My primary car is a Camaro Z28. It is heavy in front, light in the back and majorly overpowered. It is probably one of the worst cars ever made for driving in the snow. Oh and that is the car that they no not make snow tires to fit. Snow tires help a lot.

I have a misreable time with the Camaro in the winter and I hope to avoid driving it this winter. Even with weight in the back I get stuck constantly. (I think it would get stuck if a kid spilled a slushy in the street during the summer). It is truely awful to drive in snow or ice conditions. Your truck may create simlar problems. Fortunatley, it is only 20 -30 days each winter that are really bad.

Amen to these statements. I owned a Camaro once and it would get stuck in a plowed, level parking lot if it were icy.

Originally Posted by wagonman76

Good tips so far.One thing I found that helps get unstuck easily is a roll of old carpet. Often found for free and just throw it out at the end of the season. (Another use for old carpet is cut it into a solid floormat that spans both sides of the car, saves your factory carpet from a lot of crud and again just throw it out at the end of the season.) I helped an old lady get up the hill by my house once by just laying the carpet in front of the wheels and going about a car length at a time.

An old trick I have used dozens of times (usually in sand for me during the summers at the dunes, but also in winter with snow).

Another thing that works wonders is a couple of boards and a floor jack (which is a good idea anyway for changing a tire on soft ground). Saves a lot of time and backache trying to shovel out from under the car subframe and getting out of ruts. I do this whenever I get my snowplow hung up in the driveway. I'll never dig and push again. The jack and boards got me out of a sand pit on a back road once too.I run snows on anything I drive in the winter.

Another set of items I always have in the vehicles.

I spent years with all seasons but once you get snows you'll never go back. It's not just the tread, they're made of a different rubber that grips better at low temperatures and from what I hear downstate gets less snow but more ice. If the car is dedicated for winter I just leave them on. If I drive it year round then I get a cheap set of junkyard wheels and mount the snows on them and take them off in the summer. Saves at least $80 a year over remounting back and forth. Plus both sets will last longer that way so the overall cost is less.

Absolutely! A set of dedicated snow tires are FAR superior to all-seasons for performance in winter driving. I usually run either Firestone WinterForce, or the Bridgestone Blizzaks on my vehicles. (Note, neither of the links are to a particular tire size, just the first links I found to each tire)

Yes a RWD vehicle is the worst thing to have in snow country, even worse if it's light in the back. At the very least, load up the back with a couple hundred lbs or so. I do this on my FWD cars because it helps a lot with stability.And better to slow down. I personally know a lot of fools who drive like it's summer, and every one of them eventually ends up way off in the ditch or wrapped around a tree or telephone pole. One memorable time is when the freeway was pretty icy and I was coming back from downstate going 45 because of conditions. A cop was behind me and rode my tail like usual while he ran my plate, then gunned it to go around me like usual and in my rearview mirror I watched him spin out into the ditch.

Agreed, don't let anyone tell you a RWD vehicle will not work in winter anywhere. They can and have been used for decades in Michigan and every other Northern Tier state for as long as autos have been in use. Key things to keep in mind:
1) Good tires. Don't skimp on tires, they are the only control surface you have actually touching the road. In order of effectiveness in winter: A) snow tires, B) All seasons, C) regular summer tread, D) worn tires of ANY style, E) High performance street tires.
2) SLOW DOWN!!! Both in speed and actions behind the steering wheel. Quick acceleration, breaking, turning, etc...; will net you nothing but ditch or oncoming steel. Neither of which is fun. Drive smooooooooth and 1/2 the battle is won.
3) Read #1 and #2 again. Those two simple things will make driving in snow and ice much easier and safer.