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I think it is probably people from elsewhere the are the biggest problem because I hear that a lot by various people. Massive migration of people results from social injustice and instability but it results in more social injustice and instability.
A bit curious, don't u think?! LOL.
I think it's symptomatic of the fact that Mexicans want to explain away social ills by blaming it on outsiders... in D.F. it's all the trash from the surrounding provinces that moved into D.F. that caused the problems. In Juarez, it's the Veracruzanos. In Monterrey, it's all the chilangos that moved.
Mexicans don't want to look introspectively. We don't want to admit that social ills, crime, poverty... that's not our fault.
"It's not the regio's fault... he's a hardworker, he saves his money wisely. It's the outsiders who came in to work for the regio."
"It's not the chilango's fault. He's urbane, he's educated, cultured... it's the outside that came to clean his house"
"It's not the Juarense's fault. He's strong, with a ranchero spirit and doesn't need to steal. It's the outsiders that came to work in the maquilas"
Mexican society at large is to blame. We didn't bother educating or youngsters correctly... we don't push our children hard enough in school. We'd rather not pay higher salaries to police officers, so that they look for other ways to feed their families. Monterrey, while an industrious city, is still in Mexico and it's citizens are just as part of Mexican society as anywhere else.
Are several factors, not everything is in black and white as joelaldo show in his posts; The immigration affected cities like Monterrey, Juarez and Reynosa. It is a fact that can not be denied.
I got that some time ago from some discussion panel broadcast from Juarez - before it got this bad.
It was interesting and they were predicting the very problems that are taking place now. They were people in Juarez, including a priest but I don't remember their names. They were discussing the paracaista communities fast growing around Juarez and the lack of police, fire, schools and the flight of Juarez taxpayers to the north.
They were talking about the culture of Juarez being unfamiliar to the newcomers who were arriving from southern states and Central America - because each region does have it's own culture and the climate - how difficult it was for these rural southern people to be relocated to a harsh northern desert city.
I also got some of that talking with Chihuahua state police - and yes I know they're all supposed to be very corrupt and maybe they are but you could see a little what they were up against with tons of poor people moving in and too few resources and manpower -- and maybe too few honest individuals too - but the problem is complex, there is no simple solution.
They were talking about the sierras south of town where people were moving in but were people unfamiliar with Juarez and the north. They said that these slums were unpoliced, and these people were pretty much living on their own - not paying taxes so not paying for a police and fire department and were "policing" themselves with gang lords becoming dangerous and powerful. What protection the neighborhoods had was provided by it's own local gang lords. Already by then some of these guys were getting too much power.
The judicial was saying to imagine people being uprooted, moving with almost nothing to neighborhoods that had nothing and far too few jobs but more money to be had from crime than by working.
The reason I was talking to the police was over a stolen vehicle that was most likely somewhere over there -- and yes everyone said it was a joke that the police might try to help us get it back. But they were interesting to talk to. They said they would try to get it back but it was probably all in pieces by then and they would not try to get it back from the areas outside town because it wouldn't be worth getting themselves killed.
At any rate I found the Mexican police somewhat more helpful than the police here who didn't even pretend they would do anything about the stolen vehicle. What angered me is that my taxes go to my local police who basically did nothing but shrug, while the police over there spent more time getting information and acted interested.
None of this happened overnight -- it was building up quietly through years.
I got that some time ago from some discussion panel broadcast from Juarez - before it got this bad.
It was interesting and they were predicting the very problems that are taking place now. They were people in Juarez, including a priest but I don't remember their names. They were discussing the paracaista communities fast growing around Juarez and the lack of police, fire, schools and the flight of Juarez taxpayers to the north.
They were talking about the culture of Juarez being unfamiliar to the newcomers who were arriving from southern states and Central America - because each region does have it's own culture and the climate - how difficult it was for these rural southern people to be relocated to a harsh northern desert city.
I also got some of that talking with Chihuahua state police - and yes I know they're all supposed to be very corrupt and maybe they are but you could see a little what they were up against with tons of poor people moving in and too few resources and manpower -- and maybe too few honest individuals too - but the problem is complex, there is no simple solution.
They were talking about the sierras south of town where people were moving in but were people unfamiliar with Juarez and the north. They said that these slums were unpoliced, and these people were pretty much living on their own - not paying taxes so not paying for a police and fire department and were "policing" themselves with gang lords becoming dangerous and powerful. What protection the neighborhoods had was provided by it's own local gang lords. Already by then some of these guys were getting too much power.
The judicial was saying to imagine people being uprooted, moving with almost nothing to neighborhoods that had nothing and far too few jobs but more money to be had from crime than by working.
The reason I was talking to the police was over a stolen vehicle that was most likely somewhere over there -- and yes everyone said it was a joke that the police might try to help us get it back. But they were interesting to talk to. They said they would try to get it back but it was probably all in pieces by then and they would not try to get it back from the areas outside town because it wouldn't be worth getting themselves killed.
At any rate I found the Mexican police somewhat more helpful than the police here who didn't even pretend they would do anything about the stolen vehicle. What angered me is that my taxes go to my local police who basically did nothing but shrug, while the police over there spent more time getting information and acted interested.
None of this happened overnight -- it was building up quietly through years.
yes, it's a complex problem, but and it's not all in black and white. Yes, many slums around Juarez are inhabited by people from the south. In many cases, they don't even know how to handle the harsh cold winter climates in Juarez (relative to the more temperate climates in the rest of the country)
No one is denying that urban migration has had an impact on crime. To say that it's the outsiders' faults, however, is tantamount to saying crime in the United States is black people's fault. "Black people comprise the largest amount of convicted felons, so it's the blacks' fault." Somehow, that's taboo to say in the U.S. but in Mexico sweeping generalizations like that are allowed.
Yes, migration of people from impoverished areas (Zacatecas comes to mind) has led to a spike in crime, but it's not the Zacatecenses fault. it's not the migrants' fault. Mexico has for hundreds of years neglected it's poor and it's destitute. These people go to the city with hopes of a better life, but as we know, Mexican cities aren't hubs of economic prosperity for all, so to make ends meet many end up in a life of crime.
To call these people "SCUM" and to blame them for the deteriorating quality of life in the cities is an odious misrepresentation of reality. Mexico as a whole has neglected a VERY DEEP SOCIAL PROBLEM for years, and now, all it's citizens are paying the price for it. It's a social issue, and the blame doesn't lie on one group or another, but on the nation as a whole.
At any rate I found the Mexican police somewhat more helpful than the police here who didn't even pretend they would do anything about the stolen vehicle. What angered me is that my taxes go to my local police who basically did nothing but shrug, while the police over there spent more time getting information and acted interested.
I would love to see reliable statistics on rate of stolen vehicles recovered by Mexican police. According to the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) around 60 percent of stolen vehicles are recovered in the U.S. Of course, many of them are stripped, wrecked, or destroyed. 14% lead to an arrest.
Very excellent, impressive and in-depth discussions! I wonder if Calderon has folks like you in his cabinet! If not he should - the folks who know whereof they speak..
No one is denying that urban migration has had an impact on crime. To say that it's the outsiders' faults, however, is tantamount to saying crime in the United States is black people's fault. "Black people comprise the largest amount of convicted felons, so it's the blacks' fault." Somehow, that's taboo to say in the U.S. but in Mexico sweeping generalizations like that are allowed.
Yes, migration of people from impoverished areas (Zacatecas comes to mind) has led to a spike in crime, but it's not the Zacatecenses fault. it's not the migrants' fault. Mexico has for hundreds of years neglected it's poor and it's destitute. These people go to the city with hopes of a better life, but as we know, Mexican cities aren't hubs of economic prosperity for all, so to make ends meet many end up in a life of crime.
To call these people "SCUM" and to blame them for the deteriorating quality of life in the cities is an odious misrepresentation of reality. Mexico as a whole has neglected a VERY DEEP SOCIAL PROBLEM for years, and now, all it's citizens are paying the price for it. It's a social issue, and the blame doesn't lie on one group or another, but on the nation as a whole.
Yet when I pointed out that Phoenix, Arizona is the next biggest kidnapping capital in the Western Hemisphere, you pointed out that the kidnappers are not from Phoenix but elsewhere. (Just like the people of Monterrey, Juarez, etc say also)
So would you also claim that the USA or Arizona have for hundreds of years neglected their poor and destitute?
I don't think it's the poor that are criminals, but the greedy who will do anything for money and they can be poor or rich. So I blame the criminals mainly. Whoever does the drug trafficking, the killings, the kidnappings are scum. I doubt a single one of them is committing crimes in order to eat, they commit crimes because they don't value life.
I would love to see reliable statistics on rate of stolen vehicles recovered by Mexican police. According to the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) around 60 percent of stolen vehicles are recovered in the U.S. Of course, many of them are stripped, wrecked, or destroyed. 14% lead to an arrest.
I think it's pretty low. I've always suspected that as far as the USA where the police just allow the cars to be stolen especially on the border and do nothing about them leaving the country is because it's good for auto sales. That's how the police here acted, they said there was no point looking for it because it would have gone to Mexico, and just to call the insurance company and get another one.
I was more angry at the police who are paid out of my taxes. They had a don't bother me while I'm eating a doughnut attitude about it all.
I think it's pretty low. I've always suspected that as far as the USA where the police just allow the cars to be stolen especially on the border and do nothing about them leaving the country is because it's good for auto sales. That's how the police here acted, they said there was no point looking for it because it would have gone to Mexico, and just to call the insurance company and get another one.
I was more angry at the police who are paid out of my taxes. They had a don't bother me while I'm eating a doughnut attitude about it all.
The reason I don't have much to say anymore on here is because there is not much to say to someone who talks about Mexican police in a favorable light in comparison to the U.S. police. How do you fight that sort of myopic ignorance? I don't. I can't. I won't.
I think it's pretty low. I've always suspected that as far as the USA where the police just allow the cars to be stolen especially on the border and do nothing about them leaving the country is because it's good for auto sales. That's how the police here acted, they said there was no point looking for it because it would have gone to Mexico, and just to call the insurance company and get another one.
I was more angry at the police who are paid out of my taxes. They had a don't bother me while I'm eating a doughnut attitude about it all.
What? The U.S. police "allow" cars to be stolen and taken to Mexico? How does that work exactly? Are you saying they saw a car being stolen and looked the other way or saw a car going over the border and waved a cheery goodbye? Where do you live so I can avoid that place.
And what does an officer care if insurance pays off and news cars are bought? Do they get a sales commission? Last I checked, cops pay for auto insurance like everyone else and more stolen cars equals higher insurance premiums.
I'm sorry the officer taking your report didn't go into a frenzy, start blasting his whistle, and running up the street looking for your car. That's not how it works and would not be very effective law enforcement. The way it works is the officer takes the report (be it smiling or frowning or eating a doughnut), which gets entered into a NCIC database, then whenever any cops run plates (at routine traffic stops or for suspicious vehicles) it will turn up as a stolen vehicle and will be taken into custody.
Maybe if Mexican cops diligently did the same your cop wouldn't have considered it so hopeless?
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