26/m American that just spent a couple years living in Mexico City - Ask Away (renting, houses)
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Just wanted to offer up my help in case anyone had any questions about moving to Mexico City.
My short summation of life there:
If you want to live a similar life to a young professional in most major American cities, expect to spend a relatively similar amount to what you were spending in those cities.
Starbucks costs the same, groceries at the supermarket costs the same, gas for your car costs the same, buying/renting a car costs the same, going out to the trendy bars costs the same, Subway costs the same, taking a girl on a date to a decent restaurant costs the same, etc.
Taxis are certainly cheaper, but if you use the safe taxis (on a budget, I rarely did), their costs can be fairly high.
Public transportation is very cheap, but often extremely crowded.
Traffic is really really bad (one recent survey had it as the worst on earth in terms of "emotional stress").
Weather can definitely be cold (30s-50s) in the mornings and wintertime. Afternoons are often quite nice.
There are lots of Americans and Europeans living in the Condesa, Roma, and Polanco neighborhoods.
Lots of the buildings in those neighborhoods are quite old and not that nice on the inside and lacking amenities. However, many new mid-high rise buildings are being built in those neighborhoods.
Rent is definitely cheaper. In the above mentioned neighborhoods, rent would be about 60% of what it would be for comparable yuppie neighborhoods in Chicago, for instance.
Salaries are by and large lower. Probably about half of what a similar job would pay in the States, and, given that many things cost the same, in general, don't expect to save too much. (To be more specific, a prestigious consulting firm that pays its new hires 60k in the US pays its employees in Mexico City 28k). ... I am not certain about taxes in Mexico, and how much taxes are taken out of the paycheck.
In my opinion, one of the biggest downsides to Mexico City (DF) for an outsider is that it's fairly "closed off", at least among the educated crowd that you'll be working/living/playing alongside. Compared to American cities, it's not as common to meet new people at bars, for example.
---- As an aside, back here in America, I go to a church full of young professionals, and have made great friends there, gone on some weekend retreats/ski-trips, and dated some of the girls from there. Nothing like this church exists in Mexico City.
---- As another example, Chicago has a great organization called "Young Professionals of Chicago". Tons of networking/social/professional development events. Nothing like that in DF.
DF does not have nearly as many "singles bars" as a city like Chicago. Clubs are much more the norm, as compared to sports bars / singles bars seen in places like Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville.
Apaculco is sorta a dump, but really warm all the time and 3 hours away. Definitely not a city overflowing with attractive single women. I had some fun weekends there with Mexican friends that owned vacation apartments/houses there.
Most American guys agreed that the girls there are not nearly as reliable as girls in America. Dating websites (extremely popular in the USA) are pretty nonexistent ... again, hammering home my theme, Mexicans (especially upper-middle and upper-class) just aren't as comfortable/interested meeting strangers. .... This truly was the number one reason that I don't want to live here anymore. I've had far more luck in relationships before and after Mexico City than I did have while I was living there.
The hard part about being a foreigner there is that many of your close friends will likely be other Americans/Europeans, and they only stay for 1-2 years at a time.
Definitely not as many mid-priced nice health clubs as you see in American cities. And the nice ones that are available (like 'Sport City') are quite expensive.
Golf is almost exclusively on super-expensive private courses.
Definitely a thriving art scene in Roma and el Centro Historico (if that floats your boat) .... and also, some nice new high-rises are being built on Reforma Ave.
If you end up in the "Santa Fe" neighborhood, it is absolutely nothing like the rest of Mexico City. It is a brand-new neighborhood, all high-rise buildings and a massive indoor shopping mall (that I really liked), completely unwalkable.
If you stay here long-term and have kids, expect to send them to private schools, which can cost up to $20k per year per student in tuition.
.....
If you have good friends, and have some solid friendships with well-off Mexicans, and are happy with your job, money, dating/marriage situation, life here can definitely be amazing. Plenty of good restaurants and bars and clubs (if you can afford it), some really nice new high-rises being built with amazing amenities ("""""), tons of amazing vacation destinations within a 1-2 hour flight (""""), really nice tennis clubs / golf clubs to belong to and amazing year-round weather to enjoy them ("""""") ... you catch my drift.
I have no real desire to move back ... but if I were married and had a great job offer in Mexico City (salary and day to day work), I would definitely be wiling to move back.
Trying to plan a visit. Thinking Vivaaerobus to Monterrey then bus to DF. Advice on buses and bus stations in DF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping322
Just wanted to offer up my help in case anyone had any questions about moving to Mexico City.
My short summation of life there:
If you want to live a similar life to a young professional in most major American cities, expect to spend a relatively similar amount to what you were spending in those cities.
Starbucks costs the same, groceries at the supermarket costs the same, gas for your car costs the same, buying/renting a car costs the same, going out to the trendy bars costs the same, Subway costs the same, taking a girl on a date to a decent restaurant costs the same, etc.
Taxis are certainly cheaper, but if you use the safe taxis (on a budget, I rarely did), their costs can be fairly high.
Public transportation is very cheap, but often extremely crowded.
Traffic is really really bad (one recent survey had it as the worst on earth in terms of "emotional stress").
Weather can definitely be cold (30s-50s) in the mornings and wintertime. Afternoons are often quite nice.
There are lots of Americans and Europeans living in the Condesa, Roma, and Polanco neighborhoods.
Lots of the buildings in those neighborhoods are quite old and not that nice on the inside and lacking amenities. However, many new mid-high rise buildings are being built in those neighborhoods.
Rent is definitely cheaper. In the above mentioned neighborhoods, rent would be about 60% of what it would be for comparable yuppie neighborhoods in Chicago, for instance.
Salaries are by and large lower. Probably about half of what a similar job would pay in the States, and, given that many things cost the same, in general, don't expect to save too much. (To be more specific, a prestigious consulting firm that pays its new hires 60k in the US pays its employees in Mexico City 28k). ... I am not certain about taxes in Mexico, and how much taxes are taken out of the paycheck.
In my opinion, one of the biggest downsides to Mexico City (DF) for an outsider is that it's fairly "closed off", at least among the educated crowd that you'll be working/living/playing alongside. Compared to American cities, it's not as common to meet new people at bars, for example.
---- As an aside, back here in America, I go to a church full of young professionals, and have made great friends there, gone on some weekend retreats/ski-trips, and dated some of the girls from there. Nothing like this church exists in Mexico City.
---- As another example, Chicago has a great organization called "Young Professionals of Chicago". Tons of networking/social/professional development events. Nothing like that in DF.
DF does not have nearly as many "singles bars" as a city like Chicago. Clubs are much more the norm, as compared to sports bars / singles bars seen in places like Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville.
Apaculco is sorta a dump, but really warm all the time and 3 hours away. Definitely not a city overflowing with attractive single women. I had some fun weekends there with Mexican friends that owned vacation apartments/houses there.
Most American guys agreed that the girls there are not nearly as reliable as girls in America. Dating websites (extremely popular in the USA) are pretty nonexistent ... again, hammering home my theme, Mexicans (especially upper-middle and upper-class) just aren't as comfortable/interested meeting strangers. .... This truly was the number one reason that I don't want to live here anymore. I've had far more luck in relationships before and after Mexico City than I did have while I was living there.
The hard part about being a foreigner there is that many of your close friends will likely be other Americans/Europeans, and they only stay for 1-2 years at a time.
Definitely not as many mid-priced nice health clubs as you see in American cities. And the nice ones that are available (like 'Sport City') are quite expensive.
Golf is almost exclusively on super-expensive private courses.
Definitely a thriving art scene in Roma and el Centro Historico (if that floats your boat) .... and also, some nice new high-rises are being built on Reforma Ave.
If you end up in the "Santa Fe" neighborhood, it is absolutely nothing like the rest of Mexico City. It is a brand-new neighborhood, all high-rise buildings and a massive indoor shopping mall (that I really liked), completely unwalkable.
If you stay here long-term and have kids, expect to send them to private schools, which can cost up to $20k per year per student in tuition.
.....
If you have good friends, and have some solid friendships with well-off Mexicans, and are happy with your job, money, dating/marriage situation, life here can definitely be amazing. Plenty of good restaurants and bars and clubs (if you can afford it), some really nice new high-rises being built with amazing amenities ("""""), tons of amazing vacation destinations within a 1-2 hour flight (""""), really nice tennis clubs / golf clubs to belong to and amazing year-round weather to enjoy them ("""""") ... you catch my drift.
I have no real desire to move back ... but if I were married and had a great job offer in Mexico City (salary and day to day work), I would definitely be wiling to move back.
Just wanted to offer up my help in case anyone had any questions about moving to Mexico City.
My short summation of life there:
If you want to live a similar life to a young professional in most major American cities, expect to spend a relatively similar amount to what you were spending in those cities.
Starbucks costs the same, groceries at the supermarket costs the same, gas for your car costs the same, buying/renting a car costs the same, going out to the trendy bars costs the same, Subway costs the same, taking a girl on a date to a decent restaurant costs the same, etc.
Taxis are certainly cheaper, but if you use the safe taxis (on a budget, I rarely did), their costs can be fairly high.
Public transportation is very cheap, but often extremely crowded.
Traffic is really really bad (one recent survey had it as the worst on earth in terms of "emotional stress").
Weather can definitely be cold (30s-50s) in the mornings and wintertime. Afternoons are often quite nice.
There are lots of Americans and Europeans living in the Condesa, Roma, and Polanco neighborhoods.
Lots of the buildings in those neighborhoods are quite old and not that nice on the inside and lacking amenities. However, many new mid-high rise buildings are being built in those neighborhoods.
Rent is definitely cheaper. In the above mentioned neighborhoods, rent would be about 60% of what it would be for comparable yuppie neighborhoods in Chicago, for instance.
Salaries are by and large lower. Probably about half of what a similar job would pay in the States, and, given that many things cost the same, in general, don't expect to save too much. (To be more specific, a prestigious consulting firm that pays its new hires 60k in the US pays its employees in Mexico City 28k). ... I am not certain about taxes in Mexico, and how much taxes are taken out of the paycheck.
In my opinion, one of the biggest downsides to Mexico City (DF) for an outsider is that it's fairly "closed off", at least among the educated crowd that you'll be working/living/playing alongside. Compared to American cities, it's not as common to meet new people at bars, for example.
---- As an aside, back here in America, I go to a church full of young professionals, and have made great friends there, gone on some weekend retreats/ski-trips, and dated some of the girls from there. Nothing like this church exists in Mexico City.
---- As another example, Chicago has a great organization called "Young Professionals of Chicago". Tons of networking/social/professional development events. Nothing like that in DF.
DF does not have nearly as many "singles bars" as a city like Chicago. Clubs are much more the norm, as compared to sports bars / singles bars seen in places like Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville.
Apaculco is sorta a dump, but really warm all the time and 3 hours away. Definitely not a city overflowing with attractive single women. I had some fun weekends there with Mexican friends that owned vacation apartments/houses there.
Most American guys agreed that the girls there are not nearly as reliable as girls in America. Dating websites (extremely popular in the USA) are pretty nonexistent ... again, hammering home my theme, Mexicans (especially upper-middle and upper-class) just aren't as comfortable/interested meeting strangers. .... This truly was the number one reason that I don't want to live here anymore. I've had far more luck in relationships before and after Mexico City than I did have while I was living there.
The hard part about being a foreigner there is that many of your close friends will likely be other Americans/Europeans, and they only stay for 1-2 years at a time.
Definitely not as many mid-priced nice health clubs as you see in American cities. And the nice ones that are available (like 'Sport City') are quite expensive.
Golf is almost exclusively on super-expensive private courses.
Definitely a thriving art scene in Roma and el Centro Historico (if that floats your boat) .... and also, some nice new high-rises are being built on Reforma Ave.
If you end up in the "Santa Fe" neighborhood, it is absolutely nothing like the rest of Mexico City. It is a brand-new neighborhood, all high-rise buildings and a massive indoor shopping mall (that I really liked), completely unwalkable.
If you stay here long-term and have kids, expect to send them to private schools, which can cost up to $20k per year per student in tuition.
.....
If you have good friends, and have some solid friendships with well-off Mexicans, and are happy with your job, money, dating/marriage situation, life here can definitely be amazing. Plenty of good restaurants and bars and clubs (if you can afford it), some really nice new high-rises being built with amazing amenities ("""""), tons of amazing vacation destinations within a 1-2 hour flight (""""), really nice tennis clubs / golf clubs to belong to and amazing year-round weather to enjoy them ("""""") ... you catch my drift.
I have no real desire to move back ... but if I were married and had a great job offer in Mexico City (salary and day to day work), I would definitely be wiling to move back.
....
Hope this was helpful. Any Qs? Ask away.
Almost everything you've stated I would've said the exact opposite. It's definitely much cheaper to live here than in the US, especially in food, energy, rent and taxes. The subway does NOT cost the same, are you kidding? It is the cheapest subway system in the world. NYC, for example, is 10x more expensive. From what it sounds like, you must've spent all your time in three neighborhoods: Condesa, Roma and Polanco, because those areas are definitely more expensive and more unfriendly. They are full of hipsters and people who are "fresa". Most of the city is not like that at all, and for the most part, it's actually very easy to make new friends. I find the achitecture to be amazing. The old buildings have an incredible amount of character. Not all of them are in good shape, but the city has definitely been working on improving them, especially in Centro. And in a country as Catholic as Mexico is, you seriously are going to claim that there aren't any very social churches?
The tone of your post really sounds like you were expecting Mexico to be exactly the same as the US and didn't bother trying to learn the culture or get out of your comfort zone. It's a shame, because DF is an fantastic city for those willing to open up to it, and I mean to the parts that don't revolve around rich people, golf and tennis clubs.
Sorry, no idea about public schooling for foreigners. Given the really poor rankings that Mexico has on international education rankings, I would be very careful about sending your children to public schools.
A few main bus stations, all with tons of options. All routes are online.
----
First off, I clearly state that public transportation is cheap. When I said "Subway", I was referring to the restaurant, which is why I capitalized it.
Second, I should have clarified that I was referring to Protestant churches.
I was expecting this "fresa" criticism. My post was clearly aimed at fresas. It was aimed at the single 25-30yo average guy making 50k and living in Brooklyn or Wrigleyville (Chicago) or Austin TX. Explaining to him what to expect if he were to suddenly be transferred to DF.
All the Mexicans that I met from my work and school were quite well-off. I didn't purposely avoid middle-class Mexicans, I just rarely interacted with them on a regular basis.
First off, I clearly state that public transportation is cheap. When I said "Subway", I was referring to the restaurant, which is why I capitalized it.
Got it, sorry. Given the overall quality of the food here, I can't remember the last time I've had American-style fast food. I'm definitely more into the fondas and markets than the fancy sit-down place, which are very inexpensive. You can eat very well for $5 or less.
Second, I should have clarified that I was referring to Protestant churches.
I can see where that would be an issue given that almost everyone is Catholic... well, in name, anyway. Religion here plays a very different role than it does in the US. Most people claim religion, but it seems to be very separate from all other aspects of their social lives.
I was expecting this "fresa" criticism. My post was clearly aimed at fresas. It was aimed at the single 25-30yo average guy making 50k and living in Brooklyn or Wrigleyville (Chicago) or Austin TX. Explaining to him what to expect if he were to suddenly be transferred to DF.
Can you live in those places making $50K now? In any case, I can definitely see where they were your target audience, but at the same time, I don't think that represents the majority of those considering the move, at least not in my experience. Fresas in Mexico seem to be very class-oriented, and the US is not as stratified in that way. I know a lot of Americans and other foreigners living here, and none of them are like that. I would have a hard time being friends with people like that.
All the Mexicans that I met from my work and school were quite well-off. I didn't purposely avoid middle-class Mexicans, I just rarely interacted with them on a regular basis.
Well, if you ever come back, you should give that a try. I imagine your overall experience will be much different, and probably far more positive.
FWIW, I personally knew 6 other twenty-something Americans that moved to DF with the intention of getting "yuppie jobs" (banking, consulting, etc.). They all found good jobs, but all were trading higher salary for the Mexican experience.
I was raised in a yuppie city, went to a yuppie college (and played on the golf team in college AND caddied), worked as a consultant for a year in (yuppie) Lincoln Park in Chicago, moved to Mexico to gain foreign experience. Definitely glad that I did it, and I enjoyed living there.
Ha, to give you a summary of the crowd that I interacted with: my last night there, I was taken out to dinner at a restaurant that all my Mexican classmates loved: California Pizza Kitchen.
FWIW, I personally knew 6 other twenty-something Americans that moved to DF with the intention of getting "yuppie jobs" (banking, consulting, etc.). They all found good jobs, but all were trading higher salary for the Mexican experience.
I was raised in a yuppie city, went to a yuppie college (and played on the golf team in college AND caddied), worked as a consultant for a year in (yuppie) Lincoln Park in Chicago, moved to Mexico to gain foreign experience. Definitely glad that I did it, and I enjoyed living there.
Ha, to give you a summary of the crowd that I interacted with: my last night there, I was taken out to dinner at a restaurant that all my Mexican classmates loved: California Pizza Kitchen.
Yeah, it seems that your standard American chain restaurant here is seen as pretty fancy. For me, a Chili's is still a Chili's no matter what country you're in. The best food I've ever had, though, I found either on the street or some hole in the wall sketchy looking place. I have friends who run food tours in the city, so I get to know all of the best food places.
Thanks, Ping322, for sharing your experiences in Mexico City, and Mexico. It's good to have another person here with 'feet on the ground' type of experience to help answer questions. I lived in the D.F. for six years. I recognize that few of us live the same lifestyle or share the same preferences for things, so opinions about some things are naturally going to vary. Welcome!
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