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Wow might Just be cheaper to find a Dodge Ram 2500/3500 with a 5.9 6BT Cummins or a 7.3 Power Stroke Diesel Ford F250/F350
Really? Why would you want to drive around in a unrefined, un-fuel efficient truck, than an old Benz, that gets good millage, will out live us all, and has one of the interiors of any car, old or new.
Really? Why would you want to drive around in a unrefined, un-fuel efficient truck, than an old Benz, that gets good millage, will out live us all, and has one of the interiors of any car, old or new.
Yeah since a 3/4-ton PU truck is more useful IMO and parts are easy to find and cheaper to buy and mid-late 90's early 00's Full size Diesel PU trucks are very DIY friendly and easier to work on then a 30 year old Mercedes.
Sunsprit,
Thank you for that very informative post. I might have to look elsewhere in a commuter vehicle.
I need something reliable that gets good MPG, will go forever, that isn't to nice since I rack the miles up on my commute. It is looking like I might be better off just keeping my current 208k mile TDI.
I wouldn't let Sunsprit's scare you off totally. While his experiences are legit to a point mine were not nearly as catastrophic as he describes. Perhaps it is the region, clientele, or the parts source. I'm not saying it didn't happen just don't get the impression you would need to keep an inventory in your trunk.
Also keep in mind it would be a 30 + year old car.
Out of the bunch I like the 300D Turbo 123 chassis. It was a decent size and would run better than the heavier 300SD. Granted you won't do smoky burnouts but I had no issue pulling out in traffic.
The biggest problem I found with power complaints was improperly lubricated/adjusted throttle linkage that prevented full throttle.
Wasn't trying to "scare" anybody off, but give an accurate assessment of this series of cars. I've pointed out on these pages that I personally drove these cars for many years and well in excess of 750,000 miles.
I had a regular client base of over 200 MB diesels; most were in high mileage use by salespeople, executives, folks who liked to travel a lot over the vast distances of the rocky mountain west, and a number of professional firms who chose the 'benz diesels as a fleet luxury high mpg car for their staffers ... such as architectural firms in the Denver area.
I owned/operated an independent repair shop specializing in MB and BMW cars for over 35 years, and my entry into the MB marketplace was my diesel expertise since the local dealerships and the independent specialty shops in my area looked down upon the diesel 'benz's when they had shops full of the gasoline powered and upline cars such as the SL's and SEL's. I was able to keep the diesels on the road for my established clientele at a reasonable/acceptable cost per mile for many years; it wasn't uncommon for some of my high mileage customers to keep the cars through at least one engine overhaul and mid to high 6 figures on the odometers. BUT:
I got to see many more of the typical cars from other shops because Denver was a hot resale marketplace for these cars and I was the "captive" reconditioning shop for a number of 'benz specialist resale dealers. So my sampling of the real world maintenance of these cars was truly representative of the norms that were in the field.
As well, I actively bought and sold these cars, primarily the 123 and 126 chassis turbo diesels when the opportunities presented. In all candor, I had a lot of disappointed owners come to my shop with a car that they'd put a lot of money into with other shops, only to now be told at 60-70-80,000 miles that it needed major repair work. Valve jobs, injection pumps, transmission overhauls, reman factory exchange engines needed, power steering pumps, etc. Why? because the shops maintaining these cars didn't know how to maintain them ... and it included the dealerships. Folk would bring cars to me to dump that they'd been told needed incredible amounts of money to keep on the road. I bought a lot of cars for $2,500-5,000 which needed nothing but a routine major service, detailing, and putting out on my parking lot with a for sale sign, "make offer". Frequently, I'd loan out one cars as a shop convenience while a car was in for service ... many times, a gasoline 'benz owner would come back amazed at how nicely the diesel version drove and make me an offer which was a very handsome ROI. Or they'd buy it for their high schooler heading off to college in the near future.
I even had an 8 year working relationship with one of those dealerships. The used car manager sent me their diesel recons and supplied the parts I needed from their dealer parts department. He acknowledged that I knew the cars and could work on them more cost effectively than his own techs in house. As well, when they got in an older SL (190's, 230/250/280's) or a specialty car like a 600 or a 300SEL6.3, they sent those to me, too.
My point is I have a very long term experience with these diesel cars, performing all aspects of maintenance and repairs, and I think I know them pretty well.
While his experiences are legit to a point mine were not nearly as catastrophic as he describes. Perhaps it is the region, clientele, or the parts source. I'm not saying it didn't happen just don't get the impression you would need to keep an inventory in your trunk.
I always used OE parts, either from the dealer or from the major import/distributor warehouses, such as Brinson CO, SSF, World Wide Trading CO, etc. All hardware was OE spec German manufactured Wurth, or similar suppliers. These weren't places to cut corners on customer's cars.
My clientele was a wide cross-section of normal car owners with normal expectations.
Again, what really set my experience apart from many other shops was that I was the first shop in the Denver area to typically see many of the cars brought in to the area from wholesale auctions or direct trade-ins from other regions of the USA.
As far as the frequency of the repairs required for many of the items I mentioned in my post, I made my living replacing those items as needed for my customers. You have only to read through the owner's club forums online to see how many questions come up about those areas in the cars.
Additionally, these problem areas were so common that it gave rise to the aftermarket rebuilding of the components. I was involved with one of the first rebuilders for the climate, cruise, and other electronic components with a high failure rate in these cars. The guys got their start with the Bosch FI computers, ignition amplifiers, and similar items in the earlier gasoline cars, but all of these items were frequent failure points across the 'benz line. We worked to ISO 2001 standards, remanufacturing and upgrading rather than simply repairing isolated items on the PC boards. Effectively, we delivered a higher quality more durable reverse engineered component to the end user for far less cost than a new unit from Bosch or VDO. The demise of this market sector came when 'benz saw how much sales volume was going to these guys and started producing discrete sku's for each series of car and each engine; there was no way the shop could buy all the needed cores and engineer the rebuilding.
Also keep in mind it would be a 30 + year old car.
Out of the bunch I like the 300D Turbo 123 chassis. It was a decent size and would run better than the heavier 300SD. Granted you won't do smoky burnouts but I had no issue pulling out in traffic.
I've seen other shops turn up the fuel rate on these cars to where they will do "smoky burnouts". Hard on the engine and transmission, and a bit smoky out the exhaust, but they can be dialed up to deliver that much torque off the line.
While my favorite was the 300CDt as a personal transportation car, the 300SD was by far and away the better handling of the bunch and decidedly more luxurious in it's manners. It's also not that much heavier, and will deliver comparable fuel economy in the real world to a 123 chassis car.
The biggest problem I found with power complaints was improperly lubricated/adjusted throttle linkage that prevented full throttle.
Possible that a big difference in our situations is that my customers were at 5,280' elevation or higher in a cold weather climate. Improperly adjusted aneroid controls were a huge problem for us, and could greatly restrict the fuel delivery. Improperly adjusted throttle cable to the transmission would also be a driveability issue ... poor/late downshifts, too early upshifts, not kicking down to first gear from a standing start, etc. But you've hit upon yet another area of common poor routine vehicle maintenance by the shops ... the throttle linkages are right out in front of everybody on the engine, you can see the cam plates and the pivot points, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that all these metal parts and linkages to the cruise control and throttle pedal and trans cable all needed to be lubed; they weren't. The one that really got missed was the ball joint at the lower end of the injection pump link from all the throttle plates. I've seen a lot of rusty ones there.
I also saw a lot of plugged up fuel systems due to algae and bacteria growth from other areas of the country that didn't seem to be a problem in our region. I've used a strong algaecide/biocide cleaner in a lot of diesel cars where the sudden release of the growth would plug a main fuel filter within minutes. My usual tactic for these cars was to treat the fuel, run the car until the fuel filter plugged up, replace the fuel filters, and repeat. Some cars would go through 3-4-5 fuel filters before the plugging up would stop.
PS: I got pretty good at getting the transmissions out of these cars and overhauling them. I had one tech working for me that could do one in a few hours with a Transtar kit and a bunch of steels on the bench. We could do two in an evening ... me pulling the first trans, him overhauling it while I pulled the second one, and then us both finishing up the transmissions on installing them. He taught me pretty well what to look for and how to do these properly the first time on the bench.
From a practical standpoint, these cars can be an enjoyable daily driver even today. But their systems, fuel economy, emissions, braking, handling, A/C and climate control, and performance are very dated compared to more modern designs. I'll give them their due for their era, but if a driver is otherwise satisfied with a TDI VW for fuel economy, creature comforts, handling, ergonomics, performance ... it would be a giant step backwards to put a 123 or 126 chassis 'benz on the road now.
Buy something a year or two old and forget about it. I tried the whole "older reliable car" thing. My trial was a 2002 Infiniti G20, or as some know it, the Spec V Sentra. I found one in good shape with 110K miles. I serviced everything, and did some maintenance (changed valve cover gasket, replaced CV joints, replaced all filters, replaced ignition, replaced brakes, replaced tires, etc.) It was a fun little car for only 145bhp (weighed only 3000# or so, though). Then the transmission blew. That kindof sucked. Anyway, lots of PM went into fixing/maintaining it, and I estimate that for the year or so I had it, I could have had a new Nissan Sentra with 0 money down, and paid the same per month, and gotten a whole lot nicer/newer/better ride.
Same story with my 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee. That on has come back to bite me in the arse, too.
Just buy something certified pre-owned. If you can't afford to, then you can't afford to own an older car, either. Unless you are just doing it because you are passionate about it. Those unexpected $1-2K a month repair bills can get to you.
All I have to say is life is way too damn short to commute in a 30 year old car. Some people spend almost a month out of the year commuting in their vehicle going to and from work. I myself spend about 12 days with 25 miles each way, or 70 minutes a day. 350 minutes a week, 48 weeks a year. 16,800 minutes. 280 hours. 11.6 Days.
Heated seats, cooled seats, massage seats, heated steering wheel, navigation, bluetooth, and most important, satellite radio, make for a nice 50 mile commute each day for me. The rain sensing wipers, adaptive cruise control, and blind spot monitoring are also nice touches.
Considering the cost of buying one, compared to something more pedestrian, and the maintenence involved, I don't think it would be financially advantageous to get one as a DD. However, if you like them, and enjoy driving in a manner of stately grace, why not? If it was all down to strictly finance everyone would take the bus.
Buy something a year or two old and forget about it. I tried the whole "older reliable car" thing. My trial was a 2002 Infiniti G20, or as some know it, the Spec V Sentra. I found one in good shape with 110K miles. I serviced everything, and did some maintenance (changed valve cover gasket, replaced CV joints, replaced all filters, replaced ignition, replaced brakes, replaced tires, etc.) It was a fun little car for only 145bhp (weighed only 3000# or so, though). Then the transmission blew. That kindof sucked. Anyway, lots of PM went into fixing/maintaining it, and I estimate that for the year or so I had it, I could have had a new Nissan Sentra with 0 money down, and paid the same per month, and gotten a whole lot nicer/newer/better ride.
Same story with my 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee. That on has come back to bite me in the arse, too.
Just buy something certified pre-owned. If you can't afford to, then you can't afford to own an older car, either. Unless you are just doing it because you are passionate about it. Those unexpected $1-2K a month repair bills can get to you.
The difference is these are known to run on some instances to 500k. There are some things that go, but it would be less frequently, and it wouldn't be 2000, you can rebuild the engine for that price.
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