Maui - beach camping, dogs, and bonfires (Honolulu: rent, hotels)

[illz]

Originally Posted by stjepan

I think this discussion started wrong. "Lack of rules" and "no permits, rangers, etc to worry about" are not the best way to start the conversation. Honestly, without your second post I'd be thinking that you are rude, looking for the place with no law and order. So, I absolutely understand PacificFlights' answer.
By the way, did you read lately about Mexico? The country is absolutely out of law, the president doesn't control almost 10% of the country and drug gangs are killing as they like. "Lack of rule" in its purest form, I don't see moving there as a clever move.

I guess I was misinterpreted. I like to consider Mexico a society for responsible adults. There's no law forcing me to wear a helmet when I ride a bike because I'm an adult who knows how to take care of himself. There's no law telling me to put my dog on a leash, because I'm an adult and if my dog has behaviors that require a leash, I'll use one, and I'll pick up after anything my dog does. There's no law against bonfires or drinking on a beach, because if it's an unsafe behavior, I won't do it. And if by one of these behaviors I hurt myself or cause damage - I am on the line for it, I don't sue anyone to make it all better. Non-litigious societies are wonderful. Laws and regulations to control the lowest common denominator of society are a pain in the ass for responsible people.

As for the drug wars - Baja California near Cabo is quite departed from any of these. I've spent more time down there than I can remember and there has never been a single issue. The overwhelming bad rap that Mexico travel has been getting recently is due to issues around Juarez and other border towns, central areas like Mexico City, and established non-"touristy" cities. If my girlfriend was happy not working (I can gladly support us), we'd already be in Cabo

[Calico Salsa]

Thanks illz,

I think the reactions you are going to get from your questions is probably not going to be generally supportive. What might seem a remote, maybe somewhat unused beach to you will still be thought of as not where residents want someone to move in and camp.

I'm an ex-backpacker, and understand that you are probably very respectful of the area, nature, wildlife, etc. Sounds like you leave an area clean and try not to impact the surroundings. But consider from the resident's point of view, that more and more of the beaches and other areas are getting developed and populated. Just having you camping there is an impact, in that someone is living on land that is meant to be shared in a different way.

It's hard enough when 8 new big houses are going to be built in Makena, right on the beach in an area that used to be almost all locally visited. The beach just wan't 'pretty' enough for visitors. Now it is being developed, with parking and bathrooms and houses. The new homeowners will likely not appreciate resident's having a noisy kids birthday party, or camping overnight fishing, or hanging around late.

I remember bonfire rings in California too. They aren't here at all. No beach grills either. Don't even see firewood for sale in the nearby stores, not on this hot/dry side since most homes don't have fireplaces!

As to "adult" behavior - surely you can see that problems are not all caused by children. Adults don't all behave responsibly, nor for the general good. You may well be someone who does, and if so your actions will not trigger a negative reaction. Often laws are in place so that people who wouldn't behave well can be asked to do so.

[PacificFlights]

illz, unfortunetely, many come to Hawaii looking for some magical fantasy, some unrealistic paradise, and a rip roaring college spring break/ madi gras/ carnival/ Tarzan gets Jane in some south pacific free for all. That's not Hawaii. But thats why they came so they just think that Hawaii should be like their dream and they often forget Hawaii is a US State.

Hawaii has laws, Hawaii has regulations, hawaii is a respectful state. Naked breasted Polynesian women are not all over the place. Hawaiians do speak english and are often college graduates. There is indoor plumbing. Starbucks and Whole Foods are on Hawaii. AND hawaii have fire!

Just about anything that applies to respectful living in any state applies to Hawaii. That is often what is forgotten when people get off the plane, they should know its there, but they just don't want it to be that way because that’s not how they saw Hawaii. Because they don't want Hawaii for what Hawaii is versus their fantasy, they act to their fantasy.

So long as you behave the same as you would behave in any new place with respect and decency, and follow what is acceptable versus fantasy, what will be will be. But looking only for and only seeing the free spirit life of Hawaii often results in seeing only what other visitors are doing, even if that has nothing to do with Hawaii.

Now we can go into the cannibal issue if you like? (Sorry, had to add that since it's been 65 days since someone asked if cannibals are on hawaii)

[illz]

PacificFlights-
I understand that my original post was misunderstood. I don't consider bonfires, dogs on the beach off-leash, etc to be crazy partying, though I see how it could be read that way. Down in northern Oregon for example (I'm in Seattle), Cannon Beach and its neighboring Seaside are huge, miles-long wide-open beaches where dogs run free, firewood and smores equipment are sold everywhere, and people are respectful. The beaches stay clean (mild maintenance I'm sure) and things are nice. Except, it's the Oregon coast, so not warm water, no surfing, rarely hot, etc. Similarly many expansive beaches on the islands in Puget Sound let you do what you want and expect (and largely receive) respect of the area.

From all the replies and from reading quite a bit today, I understand the difference. Maui, and the other islands, are small. There are a lot of people, a lot of tourists, and relatively speaking, very little beach. It makes sense then that it can't be as open as other places I spend time, like San Diego and Cannon Beach. It doesn't discourage me, nor would I seek to make it different than it is. I just wanted to fill in some gaps in my own knowledge; finding out what locals know that I do not, as I've only been to Maui as a tourist. I wouldn't want to get in trouble for what is normal, respectful beach behavior elsewhere and now understand why it's not that way in Maui.

Thanks for all your help.

[Calico Salsa]

I think another way to look at this issue is that sometimes visitors or newcomers see the wide open undeveloped space and think, "Hey, you have plenty of that, I'll just take a little for myself..."

Except when you take a little, it isn't everyone's anymore. Residents like that the [dwindling] space is wide open and no one lives there. Plenty of us, myself included, have moved here and bought land & homes. Continued development is what it is. We all want to be the last one to move over! But at least we are living where people expect someone to live, not where we go to be away from where people are living. That space 'belongs' to everyone who wants to get away.

Does camping to live, even peacefully and tidily, impact others? Sure it does. You occupy space, not just the spot you are in, but people will keep a respectful distance. We will not want to be nosy and look your way, but there you are every day. Your stuff has marked out a spot where someone maybe used to go and set up their things for the day. Living in a spot is different from visiting it for a day. The latter means it can go to someone else the next day.

Just because there is something around, doesn't mean you get to have it for yourself. Kind of like if I see your truck full of your camping gear, and think, "Hey, you have plenty of that, I'll just take a little for myself..."

[Ellwood]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Sounds like you'd much prefer the camping at Cabo since most of what you want would be illegal in Hawaii. Driving on the beach is not allowed, dogs on beaches are frowned on and generally illegal, bonfires are not a happy option and drinking is usually illegal, too.

We spend time in Maui every year and on Keawaukapua Beach (Wailea) there are always dogs, very well-behaved I might add, on the beach.

[Ellwood]

Originally Posted by Calico Salsa

It's hard enough when 8 new big houses are going to be built in Makena, right on the beach in an area that used to be almost all locally visited. The beach just wan't 'pretty' enough for visitors. Now it is being developed, with parking and bathrooms and houses. The new homeowners will likely not appreciate resident's having a noisy kids birthday party, or camping overnight fishing, or hanging around late.

How sad they are now developing that area. The Maui we knew 20 years ago is just about gone with all the developing.

[illz]

Calico- Perhaps part of the misunderstanding is that my idea of "camping" is setting up a simple tent, some folding chairs, enjoying the afternoon/evening, sleeping, and going home the next day -- takes up the space I'd use for a picnic. I just like to occassionally lay under the stars and not have to worry about driving home; I don't rough it The longest I've ever "camped" for was 2 nights on remote private property and I was dying for a shower!

[stjepan]

There is indoor plumbing. Starbucks and Whole Foods are on Hawaii. AND hawaii have fire!

:-)))))))) You made my day! But this needed to be posted, I guess

[Calico Salsa]

Originally Posted by illz

Calico- Perhaps part of the misunderstanding is that my idea of "camping" is setting up a simple tent, some folding chairs, enjoying the afternoon/evening, sleeping, and going home the next day -- takes up the space I'd use for a picnic. I just like to occassionally lay under the stars and not have to worry about driving home; I don't rough it The longest I've ever "camped" for was 2 nights on remote private property and I was dying for a shower!

Ahh, gotcha. Sounds very low impact, and hardly there! I guess we're used to seeing campers who progressively set up a homestead, dragging in all kinds of discards, tarps, and rubbish. Or maybe those are only the ones we notice, whereas your type isn't noticed at all.

In that case, in general people won't mind you and your dog.

But please no bonfires. Also missing from beaches here, versus California, are radios blasting music. Thank goodness. Now if only we can get rid of the cigarette butts all over. We pick them up when we walk, but they seem to be multiplying rapidly.