2023 Real Estate Observations (toxic, doctor, panels)

[simplexsimon]

Bringing this back to real estate, if you want to see a real Boston-centric real estate correction healthcare reform would do it.

Controlling prices and rationalizing care would reduce dollars across the entire healthcare value chain: pharma profits and associated employee pay, medical device profits and associated employee pay, hospital profits, doctor and nurse pay, medical and nursing school tuition and associated student loan providers, everything.

[id77]

Originally Posted by newenglandgal123

Why don't you shed some light for us as to the salary that allows you to do all this? I'm sure there are more folks out there who are not able to do all these things based on their salaries. For some reason, a lot of folks here on CD are out of touch with reality and don't realize that not everyone in MA makes $200K+ per year or is a dual income household.

Enough do to push prices up. The median doesn't matter because the median isn't what sets the price. Instead of median, we really should be looking at the top quintile.

In MA, the top quintile for HHI is $142.2k, the second quintile is $89.9k, and the third quintile is $71k. The mean of the top 20% jumps up to $248k whereas the mean of the second quintile is $113k. The mean and above of that top quintile is very much in-line with housing prices in the more desirable suburbs in eastern MA, and the lower half of the top quintile is in-line with prices for the other suburbs in eastern MA.

The RE market, and particularly one with low inventory as we have now, is going to be driven by the top 20%, and the more they make compared to the next 20% and the 20% after that, the more "insane" prices are going to seem to those in the second and third quintiles. Decades ago the gap between quintiles wasn't so vast so those in the second and third quintiles remained competitive in the market. Today, with the third quintile making half what the top quintile makes, that stretching has become painful.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by newenglandgal123

For some reason, a lot of folks here on CD are out of touch with reality and don't realize that not everyone in MA makes $200K+ per year or is a dual income household.

Right, which is why lots of threads here pertain to finding homes in top school districts and lots of discussion about which towns are the "best". Sometimes this forum does take on a elitist tone with regards to where folks live.

Folks at lower income just don't have the luxury of posting on C-D all day so we never hear that point of view for the discussion. They are too busy working hard to make mediocre money unfortunately.

There are homes in MA which can be affordable to those who don't make 6-figure salaries. Homes like this:
https://www.redfin.com/MA/Lowell/451.../home/11657011

But rather we seem fixated on homes in the 7-figure range as the new normal for the "average" home when that's far from the case.

[newenglandgal123]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Right, which is why lots of threads here pertain to finding homes in top school districts and lots of discussion about which towns are the "best". Sometimes this forum does take on a elitist tone with regards to where folks live.

Folks at lower income just don't have the luxury of posting on C-D all day so we never hear that point of view for the discussion. They are too busy working hard to make mediocre money unfortunately.

There are homes in MA which can be affordable to those who don't make 6-figure salaries. Homes like this:
https://www.redfin.com/MA/Lowell/451.../home/11657011

But rather we seem fixated on homes in the 7-figure range as the new normal for the "average" home when that's far from the case.

Sadly $435K is still out of reach for many. Also, I'm not sure how many folks that house would appeal to being on a busy street and looks like it needs some TLC which means more $$$. I know beggars can't be choosers but....picking a place to live and invest a lot of your time and $$$ should be something you'll be happy with, not to have to settle. That's the other problem is so many folks have to settle with the thought that they'll be able to trade up for better in a few years. I for one have never had a property that I love so much that I say, oh yeah I'll be here for awhile. I've had to settle with the hope/plan of trading up but that game can get old after awhile. As I mentioned I'm on about my 5th property and not done yet but these times are challenging to try and 'trade up.'

[matrix5k]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

Right, which is why lots of threads here pertain to finding homes in top school districts and lots of discussion about which towns are the "best". Sometimes this forum does take on a elitist tone with regards to where folks live.

Folks at lower income just don't have the luxury of posting on C-D all day so we never hear that point of view for the discussion. They are too busy working hard to make mediocre money unfortunately.

There are homes in MA which can be affordable to those who don't make 6-figure salaries. Homes like this:
https://www.redfin.com/MA/Lowell/451.../home/11657011

But rather we seem fixated on homes in the 7-figure range as the new normal for the "average" home when that's far from the case.

That's a nice house, much nicer than our first one. Our first house was smaller and also on a busy street. But everyone here scoffs at homes like this. They all want an amazing home on a cul-de-sac in a top school district, but for much lower than market price.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by matrix5k

But everyone here scoffs at homes like this. They all want an amazing home on a cul-de-sac in a top school district, but for much lower than market price.

That's kinda the point I was driving at. That home even has an updated kitchen and bath and electrical system.


I'm not saying i'm no saint either when it comes to home expectations...as shown by what i said over in the overgrown grass thread.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by id77

Enough do to push prices up. The median doesn't matter because the median isn't what sets the price. Instead of median, we really should be looking at the top quintile.

In MA, the top quintile for HHI is $142.2k, the second quintile is $89.9k, and the third quintile is $71k. The mean of the top 20% jumps up to $248k whereas the mean of the second quintile is $113k. The mean and above of that top quintile is very much in-line with housing prices in the more desirable suburbs in eastern MA, and the lower half of the top quintile is in-line with prices for the other suburbs in eastern MA.

The RE market, and particularly one with low inventory as we have now, is going to be driven by the top 20%, and the more they make compared to the next 20% and the 20% after that, the more "insane" prices are going to seem to those in the second and third quintiles. Decades ago the gap between quintiles wasn't so vast so those in the second and third quintiles remained competitive in the market. Today, with the third quintile making half what the top quintile makes, that stretching has become painful.

This is true. It's the top earners who are ruining the real estate market for everyone else in this state.

[UNC4Me]

Originally Posted by msRB311

This is true. It's the top earners who are ruining the real estate market for everyone else in this state.

Based on your statement, it also follows that medium earners are ruining it for low earners. If someone buying for 1.5 million is ruining it for people who can only pay 900k, then those paying 900k are ruining it for those who can only pay 450k. Those paying 450k are ruining it for those who can’t buy at all.

I get that you dislike people buying pricey homes, but don’t forget to a LOT of people you’re one of them.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by UNC4Me

Based on your statement, it also follows that medium earners are ruining it for low earners. If someone buying for 1.5 million is ruining it for people who can only pay 900k, then those paying 900k are ruining it for those who can only pay 450k. Those paying 450k are ruining it for those who can’t buy at all.

I get that you dislike people buying pricey homes, but don’t forget to a LOT of people you’re one of them.

Thank you captain obvious. It's a trickle down effect.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

We also need death panels.

We already have insurance companies. Basically the same deal.

My insurance company decided on significantly less effective and more toxic (but cheaper) treatment for my cancer, not my world-class oncology team. And I got to pay more than my annual take-home salary out of pocket for 6 months of treatment (to say nothing of years of more invasive/expensive medical intervention in the following years thanks to the lung damage caused by this treatment - again, not the one my team wanted me on) as a result.

It's hard to tell if my insurance was betting I'd be dead by 25 so it would be a moot point or gambling with the risks. I'll likely live to my 80s, but with a lot of medical intervention for my janky lungs, so it would seem they chose poorly for their bottom line as well as mine.

If not for our *lovely* US healthcare system leaving me paying off medical debt for the entirety of my 20s, I suspect I would also be locked into a low mortgage for a house that has seen huge equity leaps in the past few years. What good is having access to the best hospitals in the world (my oncologist was the head of his specialty at Dana Farber) if some underwriter at an insurance agency can say they know better?