20s Couple seeking Area/Neighborhood Advice (Baltimore, Ellicott City: health insurance, mortgage, house)

[ThoroughlyResearched]

Hi City Data people! First of all, you all rock, these forums are so helpful! That being said, hopefully you have some specific advice you can lend me!

My husband and I (same-sex couple) are in our late 20s, and currently live in Knoxville, Tennessee where I grew up. Unfortunately in the last few weeks, Tennessee has started considering some legislation that has us pretty scared. They’re talking about basically working to un-recognize same sex marriages which would have some scary consequences for us. So we’ve started casually looking for places we could move to if things look like they’re going to get bad for us here. We’ve ruled out anywhere else in the south, mainly out of fear that any conservative state might adopt similar measures. Neither of us has any particular fondness for the midwest, and I’m not super keen on how far away we’d be if we moved to the west coast. That has led our search to the northeast! I feel like I’ve researched round and round till my eyes are crossing lol. Our original idea was Massachusetts around the Boston area, but have discovered that it’s just SUPER expensive to get pretty much anywhere in Massachusetts. That led me to more research which seemed to point to Maryland as a good option (open to other suggestions if anyone feels they would be a better fit).

Sorry for the long-winded intro, just wanted to give some background to my questions. Ok looking for some specific suburb / neighborhood or even specific development suggestions. I’ve been looking around Baltimore or between Baltimore / D.C areas, but there are so many areas I’m just getting a bit overwhelmed. We both work from home, so relative location isn’t a huge issue. I’d also be open to other areas of Maryland if they sound right. We currently have a new construction home that’s about 2500 sq ft that we built last year for around 300k. We’d like something new again, preferably in the 300s-400s. We’d love to be in a master planned community with parks and shopping / etc, but would also settle for a nice neighborhood with a pool and some amenities that’s convenient to all that. We’re pretty boring and love suburbia, I would like to be close to good shopping and restaurants and maybe within 30ish minutes to a city area - perhaps D.C. or Baltimore or both. We don’t have any kids yet but it’s something we’re thinking about so really want to be in a good school area. Also safety is a big priority. One last thing, we might move our parents to the area too and they have less of a budget to spend, so it would be nice to have some cheaper housing options at least within decent proximity.

I’m sorry if that was long winded! I’ve just looked at so many states first, and now so many different areas of Baltimore and I just don’t know where I should be looking! Super appreciative of any help and advice! Thank you!

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by ThoroughlyResearched

We’ve ruled out anywhere else in the south, mainly out of fear that any conservative...
...and I’m not super keen on how far away we’d be if we moved to the west coast.
That has led our search to the northeast!

I feel like I’ve researched round and round till my eyes are crossing

Almost any NE city will be fine... if you can find the work needed to afford it.

Our original idea was Massachusetts around the Boston area,
but have discovered that it’s just SUPER expensive...

Yeah, like that.

We both work from home, so relative location isn’t a huge issue.

Nope... but household income is.

We’re pretty boring and love suburbia,
I would like to be close to good shopping and restaurants
and maybe within 30ish minutes to a city area - perhaps D.C. or Baltimore or both.

You and 30 million other couples.

Using the old school rule of thumb... the target of house price to income ratio is 2.5
The median home value in Knoxville, TN is $126,800. ... implying a $50,000 income
The median home value in Towson, MD is $346,100 ...implying a $138,000 income.

You can certainly spend less and you can push the ratio number up (too many already do)
but whatever the income number used... it should be that of only ONE partner; even a DINK couple.

A bit south of Towson is Anneslie and a few other similar older and very nice suburbs.
This is a LINK to some listings.

[papichulo2]

If your worried about something crazy it makes no sense to be living by the White House…

[papichulo2]

If your worried about something crazy it makes no sense to be living by DC…

i already have my backup plan

[ThoroughlyResearched]

Originally Posted by papichulo2

If your worried about something crazy it makes no sense to be living by the White House…

If federal issues arise, it won't matter if I'm living beside D.C. or on the other coast. We toyed with the idea of a Canadian move, but don't have an easy way to get other family members up there if they wanted to join us, so for now that's off the table. We'll settle for a more liberal state than we've got now.

[ThoroughlyResearched]

Income is 100-120k with no other debt besides mortgage. We're willing to spend into the high 300s - low 400s if necessary. Any thoughts on Ellicot vs some of the areas around Frederick? I know closer to frederick is further than 30 mins from Baltimore or D.C. but I think I'm willing to be more flexible on that if the area is nice.

[MidValleyDad]

Job should come first then use that as the center point of your search. That should narrow your potential search area to a more reasonable field

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by ThoroughlyResearched

Income is 100-120k with no other debt besides mortgage.
We're willing to spend into the high 300s - low 400s if necessary.

Again... I'll suggest that you plan to spend far less.
The ROT -100K x 3; 120K x 2.5- really sets the upper number at $300,000.
Using only the larger of your two incomes would have the upper number set even lower.

This is especially so if you also want to fund retirements accounts, have health insurance,
and still have enough cash available to actually enjoy your lives (however that is defined for you).

Any thoughts on Ellicot vs some of the areas around Frederick?

EC is about most the expensive choice around.
The median home value in Ellicott City is $516,600.

...but I think I'm willing to be more flexible on that if the area is nice.

What makes "nice" in suburbia puts you in direct competition with the Cleavers.
They'll pay through the nose in these areas because of the public school quality.

In most of these suburban areas... Ward is doing VERY well and June is no slouch either.
But even the Cleavers didn't start in Font Hill or Towson.
They brought substantial down payment money (equity inheritance family etc) with them...
in order to reduce the mortgage balance to a level that can actually be afforded on their income.

So, whether you like it or not (and good that you do) you are almost required to go pretty
far out from the City Centers to find a suburbia of the sort you imply wanting at what I call affordable...
but you're not going to find much good shopping or restaurant choice out there.

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

Job should come first then use that as the center point of your search. That should narrow your potential search area to a more reasonable field

He said they both work from home.

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by MrRational

Again... I'll suggest that you plan to spend far less.
The ROT -100K x 3; 120K x 2.5- really sets the upper number at $300,000.
Using only the larger of your two incomes would have the upper number set even lower.

This is especially so if you also want to fund retirements accounts, have health insurance,
and still have enough cash available to actually enjoy your lives (however that is defined for you).

That's some funky math that, among other things, doesn't take into account downpayment size. Traditionally, debt-to-income shouldn't exceed 36% of pretax income. @ 36% ($3600/month), OP having no other debt, and assuming 20% down, a 1.1% property tax, and a standard home insurance policy, you're looking at about a $700K house. Obviously, that shrinks if OP doesn't want to spend the $140K down payment or otherwise wants to play it conservative (which it sounds like they do), but saying they have an upper limit of $300K on a $120K/year salary doesn't make sense in even the most conservative of formulas.

Ellicott City is nice, OP, but you should read about the massive flooding the downtown experienced last year, if you're unaware of that issue, and then streetview Main St. A large swath of the retail is currently boarded up and likely will be in the short/medium term, so just know that going in. Nearby Catonsville might be a good, cheaper option.

Frederick is quite nice and stands on its own as a destination for retail/restaurants/bars. You're right that it's not an easy skip over to DC or Baltimore, so make sure you like Frederick itself enough. Traveling into DC/Baltimore with any regularity would be a real pain.