A debate: How to grow Maine's economy? (Portland, Brunswick: lease, income)

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by Maineac

This kinda got off topic, and I apologize for that. I've got nothing against the Guard, but I won't apologize for feeling that all taxpayer funded employees have their own "entitlement" program and an "I could've done better elsewhere so I deserve everything I get" attitude.

Well, you just got to the crux of the argument and its the core issue whether you are talking about the local, state and federal level: Everyone has their own entitlement program and they want to keep it. However, they have no problem railing on about somebody else's entitlement problem and labeling it as "waste".

The biggest drains at the federal level are (and it no particular order as they are ALL huge albatrosses): Social security, medicaid and medicare. No matter what, there is no way that the federal deficit can be fixed without both huge cuts and major overhauls of these entitlement programs.

Now, who is going to tell the now-retiring baby boomers as well as those already retired that their entitlement program needs to be reorganized or gotten rid of entirely?

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by broadbill

Well, you just got to the crux of the argument and its the core issue whether you are talking about the local, state and federal level: Everyone has their own entitlement program and they want to keep it. However, they have no problem railing on about somebody else's entitlement problem and labeling it as "waste".

The biggest drains at the federal level are (and it no particular order as they are ALL huge albatrosses): Social security, medicaid and medicare. No matter what, there is no way that the federal deficit can be fixed without both huge cuts and major overhauls of these entitlement programs.

Now, who is going to tell the now-retiring baby boomers as well as those already retired that their entitlement program needs to be reorganized or gotten rid of entirely?

Agreed!

We were supposed to be a government by the people for the people. Our forefathers knew the evil necessity that government is. And for the most part in theory we still are.. But functionaly we are really the people's goverment..

Take a look around and see how many people depend on the goverment by either working for it or through pensions and or welfare ect...

Now considers households and that depenency looks much worse.. so one person may actually work in the private sector but their spouse probably works for the goverment... In this two person income life style we have you know have a household beholdent to that goverment job.

So now our goverment is not an evil hungry lion but rather our neighbors, friends, and family..

There are ways we will survive this with out slashing and cutting and making major overhauls... Unfortunately our goverment does not want to make changes and risk losing power and control..

Things will come through imeasurable changes.. Weaker dollar, lower standard of living, less high wage opportunities, stagnation ect.... as a nation we will all pay we just won't be able to put a finger on it..

There will be debates but in the end we all know that things could have been much better...

[Maineac]

The problem is, over the last 30 years the Government has turned into a living, breathing, self-serving, self protective employment center. Civil service used to assume an "honorable" undertaking to the benefit of society. Then the notion that civil servants deserve "more" took over. In the days the manufacturing industries were providing some benefits, it was only fair to bring civil service on par with pay, benefits, etc. In the last few years manufacturing and other industries have disappeared, corporate greed has taken over, benefits slashed and pay scales reduced in the private sector. A lot of outsourcing overseas. Meanwhile, the protective nature of government employ has ignored this phenomenon, continued to grow at exponential rates, annual cost of living increases, raises, increases in GS scale, thrift savings plans, medical, dental and other benefits that have been "removed" to a large extent from the private sector. That's all I'm saying. It's become severely imbalanced as an "entitlement." And, frankly, it probably isn't going to change. Oh, I forgot "comp time." A Fed buddy of mine has over SIX months saved up and takes every Monday off at his leisure. On top of paid vacations. Good for him! But it galls me to have to work until I'm 70 to pay for it.

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by Maineac

The problem is, over the last 30 years the Government has turned into a living, breathing, self-serving, self protective employment center. Civil service used to assume an "honorable" undertaking to the benefit of society. Then the notion that civil servants deserve "more" took over. In the days the manufacturing industries were providing some benefits, it was only fair to bring civil service on par with pay, benefits, etc. In the last few years manufacturing and other industries have disappeared, corporate greed has taken over, benefits slashed and pay scales reduced in the private sector. A lot of outsourcing overseas. Meanwhile, the protective nature of government employ has ignored this phenomenon, continued to grow at exponential rates, annual cost of living increases, raises, increases in GS scale, thrift savings plans, medical, dental and other benefits that have been "removed" to a large extent from the private sector. That's all I'm saying. It's become severely imbalanced as an "entitlement." And, frankly, it probably isn't going to change. Oh, I forgot "comp time." A Fed buddy of mine has over SIX months saved up and takes every Monday off at his leisure. On top of paid vacations. Good for him! But it galls me to have to work until I'm 70 to pay for it.

I understand your frustration.

Just a question about the comp time: Is it above and beyond what he works, or is it in lieu of overtime pay? In recent years, many civil service employees have had that policy changed. Now, instead of overtime cash payments, many branches have replaced cash with time compensation in order to save on the budget. Don't quote me verbatim, but it may be time in a half in hours vs. time and a half in hourly wage.

[Maineac]

Too much corporate lobbying against for the last post to come to fruition. Too much public funding going toward law enforcement budgets. Dupont alone spends millions a year to keep even non-psychoactive hemp illegal. Why? When was the last time you saw a piece of rope (well, you have manilla, I suppose) that wasn't plastic? It isn't the evil weed that's the problem. It's the impact large scale hemp production will have on various industries as indicated above. Not all cannabis sativa is a psychoactive herb. I used hemp ropes into the 1960's doing steeplejack work. Plastic SLIPS. Hemp hitches securely, but it eventually rots. And no, you couldn't "smoke" the rope I was using and get anything more than a severe cough and headache. But the fairy tales continue.

[msina]

My Dad once worked at "Cordage Park" in Plymouth, Massachusetts. (eons ago) All manner of hemp rope was manufactured for sea going vessels there.
Okay, I'm going to throw one out there that I know is unacceptable but, one can dream can't one? Legalize Mj. You talk about tourism! Set up coffee houses as they have in Amsterdam and British Columbia.
Okay, I'm done "blowing smoke" now.

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by reloop

I understand your frustration.

Just a question about the comp time: Is it above and beyond what he works, or is it in lieu of overtime pay? In recent years, many civil service employees have had that policy changed. Now, instead of overtime cash payments, many branches have replaced cash with time compensation in order to save on the budget. Don't quote me verbatim, but it may be time in a half in hours vs. time and a half in hourly wage.

Comp is earned in lew of OT at the same rate 1.5 hrs of comp for every hr worked in ot..

When I worked for the federal goverment I earned bookoo amounts of comp time.. My agency did not like paying ot and for me it was a great benifit..

The catch I think is when someone who is about to retire can cash in the unused comp and get a huge paycheck and in theory he/she will be getting paid at their highest pay grade considering much of the comp time was earned at lower pay grades??

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by flycessna

Comp is earned in lew of OT at the same rate 1.5 hrs of comp for every hr worked in ot..

When I worked for the federal goverment I earned bookoo amounts of comp time.. My agency did not like paying ot and for me it was a great benifit..

The catch I think is when someone who is about to retire can cash in the unused comp and get a huge paycheck and in theory he/she will be getting paid at their highest pay grade considering much of the comp time was earned at lower pay grades??

How long ago was that? I'm not 100% that this is still the case. I could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time, but I do know that things are nowhere near what they used to be.

I'm reasonably sure there is a time limit for when they can be used ("use or lose" just like the private sector now does) and yes, it is a good benefit when someone is expected to be at the beck and call of the boss 24 hours a day/7 days a week.

In order to earn beau coup comp time, then you had to have worked over what is supposed to be the typical 40 hour work week correct?

Again, 9/11 changed everything. Late night phone calls and call ins can be expected, and yes, I think they should be compensated. All I'm saying is that it's not "something for nothing" (as it once was) like seems to be implied here. Is there waste? Of course, there is everywhere.

In fact, "privatization" is all the rage now with most operations. Many things are done the way that businessess on the "outside" do them now.

Be that as it may, I'm straying far off topic, so I'll simply stop.

I hope that those who are starting up new businessess (preferably ones that are sustainable, like foods - who doesn't eat food? - for example) can get the breaks they need to grow into successful ventures.

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by reloop

How long ago was that? I'm not 100% that this is still the case. I could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time, but I do know that things are nowhere near what they used to be.

I'm reasonably sure there is a time limit for when they can be used ("use or lose" just like the private sector now does) and yes, it is a good benefit when someone is expected to be at the beck and call of the boss 24 hours a day/7 days a week.

elaws - FLSA Overtime Calculator Advisor (http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/otcalc/doc7oi1.asp - broken link)

We were governed under FLSA.. this is the government website which explains the rules..

I took a quick read through 29 CFR 553.27 - Payments for unused compensatory time , and it doesn't appear any major changes have been made since 1986.. I was covered under emergency personal.. I didn't see any time limit on "use or lose".. though I only worked for 3 years I think I would have remebered if there was that rule however I could be mistaken..

Basically it controlls how much comp time someone can accrue before they have to be paid OT..

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by flycessna

elaws - FLSA Overtime Calculator Advisor (http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/otcalc/doc7oi1.asp - broken link)

We were governed under FLSA.. this is the government website which explains the rules..

I took a quick read through 29 CFR 553.27 - Payments for unused compensatory time , and it doesn't appear any major changes have been made since 1986.. I was covered under emergency personal.. I didn't see any time limit on "use or lose".. though I only worked for 3 years I think I would have remebered if there was that rule however I could be mistaken..

Basically it controlls how much comp time someone can accrue before they have to be paid OT..

Thanks for the link - I'll be sure to read over it. One issue I'd have more of a problem with would be compensatory time used as a bonus vs. earned in lieu of pay. IMO, it would be reasonable to expect government workers not to be compensated for time they didn't spend working. Yes, I know this happens.

As to growing the economy, IMHO, if we don't start helping smaller businesses grow into larger ones, start "demanding" that "supply" start here, and set reasonable expectations for those who need assistance to work, one of two things is bound to happen.

Either "gubmint jobs" or social service programs are going to grow.