A debate: How to grow Maine's economy? (Bangor, Augusta: house, layoffs)

[island mermaid]

Originally Posted by Maine Writer

Who's doing something to change their situation and what's being done?

I think you should bring everyone in here up to date with what you're doing? It's great news, so share!

[Northern Maine Land Man]

MaineWriter asks:
"Who's doing something to change their situation and what's being done?"

We have some good candidates running. If Mainers take a good hard look and actually vote we can turn this mess around. The same party has been in control in Augusta for four decades. Because of their oppressive regulations not one paper company owns land in Maine today. Businesses are fleeing the state. At the same time we advertise for people reaching the end of their benefits in other states to come to Maine where benefits never end. It doesn't have to be this way. Put a leash on LURC.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

While tourism is a big industry in Maine. I am not sure how much of Maine is really effected by out-of-state tourism. I do not live in a tourism 'hotspot'. About half of the properties in my township are accessed seasonally, the owners tend to be folks who live near Portland [rather than out-of-staters].

I recently attended a conference held by an economist who shared many interesting statistics with us. Among them:
1. Maine's population is old;

2. Maine's 'Demographic Winter' is upon us [*];

3. Maine's economy was growing steadily right up to the last quarter of 2001, since then it peaked and has seen a steady decline;

4. Slightly over 50% of all Mainer's personal income is from the public sector, less than half is from the private sector.

[*] Demographic Winter is when the birth rate drops to below self-sustainable numbers. For any culture to sustain itself it must have a birth rate of 2.6 The birth rate in the USA is 2.1, birth rates in all Western European nations range from 1.1 to 2.1 As a culture we are facing our own extinction because we refuse to breed. In the case of Maine, due to our aging population, females of breeding age are a very small minority. Maine has already reached the point beyond which there is no recovery. As a nation there is still a chance of recovery [though it would require a stoic breeding effort by most people of breeding age].

IMHO; before our economy could 'recover' we would require people of career age. We do not have enough of them at this stage.

May Divine Providence guide us.

Time to ban Vasectomies I guess!!!

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by retiredtinbender

I typed all that so you could write 2 words??? C'mon!! You know how long that took to proofread???

You did a good job. It "read" quite well.

[starwalker]

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

Could be the cheapest and easiset way to attract businesses, would be to have reliable, clear communication with the rest of America and the world.

That means high-speed internet and high-quality telephone service.

I'm a small-time entrepreneur, one of many such today who rely on the internet.

Being small-time entrepreneur means I'm unconventional (were I conventional, I'd work for someone else).

And it takes an unconventional American to want to move themselves and their business to Maine.

Because most conventional Americans dreams of the sunbelt, instead.

Now the other good thing about businesses like mine, is we do the least harm to our surrounding environments: low power consumption, low pollution, no smoking factories, no industrial waste, no windmills spoiling the view, etc.

So there can be a lot of businesses like mine in Maine, without degrading the environment that makes Maine so great to be in.

And much of the money we make comes from outside the state.

We are paddling similar boats, it would seem. I found the lack of reliable high speed Internet service (and NOT satellite with their bandwidth limits!) to be the only real stumbling block when I relocated with my two small Internet-based businesses. I WANTED to be in a more remote location, where I could have both woods and garden and more space between me and my neighbors. Instead I ended up with less land, no woods and neighbors I can see on all 4 sides, much closer to Bangor than I had intended.

I could have been added to the coffers of Aroostock (which I likely misspelled) or Washington counties, but I am not.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

A company is running the support cable for a new fiber optic data line from Bangor to Presque Isle. I spoke with the crew in front of my house. None of the towns this line goes through will benefit in any way.

[starwalker]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

A company is running the support cable for a new fiber optic data line from Bangor to Presque Isle. I spoke with the crew in front of my house. None of the towns this line goes through will benefit in any way.

Now, that is just plain WRONG.

[Maineac]

Er, NMLM, the Maine manufacturing base started dying 40 years ago, with the large corporations moving their fabric manufacturing, shoe manufacturing and everything else offshore for lower wages. There's no "good" answers. While the pulp and paper mills provided jobs, virtually every penny of profit went out of state. They'd force the municipalities to spend incessantly fighting property tax abatement suits. Given the opportunity years ago, the pulp and paper industry would've clearcut ever stick of wood, planted nothing, herbicided hardwoods out of existence, and still would've wound down their mills one way or the other. The internet, online magazines and computers have wiped out paper demand. LURC limits abuses. Maybe they go overboard, but without checks and balances, the Penobscot, Kennebec, Androscoggin and Saco Rivers would be dead zones. Toilets would still flow directly into the lakes and rivers instead of into septic systems. The rivers downstream from the mills back in the 60's were virtual dead zones until we got some control over out-of-state owners dumping tons of poisons directly into the rivers. Tankers would flush their oil tanks in the Penobscot on their way out to the bay. Oil slicks laid all over the beaches on the bay. Still shouldn't eat bass caught on the Penobscot or Kennebec. I worked for one of the paper companies. And helped stop the Big A dam project, that was a sugar coated, one-way ticket for profits out of state. Sure, they'd still have an operating dam, but nobody in Maine would benefit from it. And the mill still would've closed. Sounds to me like there's more than enough blame to go around without pointing fingers at people trying to balance common sense against the almighty dollar. Turn 'em loose and you'd have a wasteland.

And I'd like to see Peter Vigue run on the Republican ticket. But he won't.

[RANGER.101ST]

Originally Posted by melinuxfool

It's abundantly clear to me that the idea the state government has had to focus on a tourism economy is failing miserably for the local people

ok im going to have a stab at this.the first thing that needs to be done is to vote.vote some one in who is going to try to fix things yes i said try he/she has 4 years and it will be almost imposable to fix 8 years worth of f@#k ups.i should run every one else is.

Working three months out of the year just does not pay the bills during the other nine. I'm fortunate enough to have a job that pays a decent wage, but I realize many others are not.

well some people dont even have 3 months of the year and not every one can work at walmart.one word industry.

What can we do as a state to better our economic situation?

this is a good question.my answer is sell our selves as hard working and loyal.to any one interested in doing buisness in our state.

I think we need a radical change in direction. I would like to see Augusta care more about Maine people than summer visitors.

the problem here is we keep electing the same idiots over and over and over.hows that working for us.we cant keep doing the same thing and expect diffrent results.

the first thing that needs to happen when we elect our next governor is make sure he's not a candy ass sell out.when we send him to washington make him do his job and not bow down like a little bit@#. they get caught up is the OH MY GOD IM IN WASHINGTON star struck mode and forget why they are there.
we give more money to these guys and they do nothin for it.
lobby for industry all types of industry.bring back incentives for people who want to build farming and agriculture.cap the welfare system if you come here your gona work if you cant find work then we can find some thing for you to do.you aint sitting home and collecting any thing for free. i have a million ideas but this is just a few.this is just how i view things black or white.

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by Maineac

Er, NMLM, the Maine manufacturing base started dying 40 years ago, with the large corporations moving their fabric manufacturing, shoe manufacturing and everything else offshore for lower wages. There's no "good" answers. While the pulp and paper mills provided jobs, virtually every penny of profit went out of state. They'd force the municipalities to spend incessantly fighting property tax abatement suits. Given the opportunity years ago, the pulp and paper industry would've clearcut ever stick of wood, planted nothing, herbicided hardwoods out of existence, and still would've wound down their mills one way or the other. The internet, online magazines and computers have wiped out paper demand. LURC limits abuses. Maybe they go overboard, but without checks and balances, the Penobscot, Kennebec, Androscoggin and Saco Rivers would be dead zones. Toilets would still flow directly into the lakes and rivers instead of into septic systems. The rivers downstream from the mills back in the 60's were virtual dead zones until we got some control over out-of-state owners dumping tons of poisons directly into the rivers. Tankers would flush their oil tanks in the Penobscot on their way out to the bay. Oil slicks laid all over the beaches on the bay. Still shouldn't eat bass caught on the Penobscot or Kennebec. I worked for one of the paper companies. And helped stop the Big A dam project, that was a sugar coated, one-way ticket for profits out of state. Sure, they'd still have an operating dam, but nobody in Maine would benefit from it. And the mill still would've closed. Sounds to me like there's more than enough blame to go around without pointing fingers at people trying to balance common sense against the almighty dollar. Turn 'em loose and you'd have a wasteland.

And I'd like to see Peter Vigue run on the Republican ticket. But he won't.

"Checks and balances" REP, REP, REP... Also, as only one example, most of the death of the shoe industry happened when department stores started selling cheap Chinese shoes - period. We kept spending our money at these stores to buy shoes, yet, a substantial amount of that money ceased from flowing back into our state.

A good shoeshop worker could make a healthy living and therefore, reinvest it in the local economy and many did just that. Following the death of that business, the same shoe worker makes minimum wage and has less to spend - and less face it - when the governer hightails it for a "handshake and tough break" PR session to reassure them that the state will help them to go back to school (yes, that's a good thing) - realistically you will have a fair share of people who for whatever reason cannot cut the mustard in school.

Reality dictates that they'll end up pushing mops for minimum wage, unless they find a way to grow a business of some sort themselves (in which case, they should absolutely have some assistance in the form of less regs and more breaks).

I know many good people who worked in the shoe industry and have gone for retraining. I make a point of talking to them. One I work with directly.
She went for retraining that the state offered around 8 or so years ago.
She is only now making the wage that she was making when she was laid off. That is important to note.