arsnic in well water (Wells, Casco: sale, real estate, lenders)
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Hey, my folks were purchasing a home here in Maine and the well water test came back "unsuitable for drinking". The radon level was high but it was the arsnic level of 7 times the alowable amount that hurt the rating and have completley freaked my folks out who are now considering walking away from the contract.
Anyone have experience with arsnic filters or just high readings? Can the heavy rains mess with the well water tests. This house is located on once farm land and the well is over 300 feet drilled.
Geesh that's a tough one Fly.
Wells that have been inactive for awhile sometimes test high for arsenic levels and sometimes by continuosly running the water, it may decrease levels-and maybe not.
The young and elderly are the most at risk.
We had a well with higher than allowable levels and were able to get a reverse osmosis system to drop the levels to make it safe enough to use but I wasn't happy with that so we tapped into the deep well next door that I own and eliminate the bad well altogether.
We were looking (on line) at a house in Casco that had had arsnic in the well water.....the owners had filters etc to mitigate the problem.....It was a beautiful home--I had never even had well water let alone needing to filter out a poisonous chemical....so we looked no further. I believe that arsnic is common in granite....which makes up a good part of New Englands sub strata of rock....so the problem can't be that unique....and probably the filters are fine and safe. BUT it still was off putting to me....because in my experience....everything that can go wrong does.....and it scared me....what if the filter wasnt working properly....
So I know nothing.....but that was my experience. I guess I was as cautious as your parents are.
Oh oh! Am glad this was brought up. Am buiilding brand new and I am having a well dug and put in. Never had a well before iin any of my previous homes. When they dig, does the well company test at that time or is it up to the home owner? How does one know if the water is any good before you have one dug...or can you know? I would guess, once the well is dug, you are stuck with what you have. I also thought filters they put on when the water was brought into the house took care of the impurities? This is one item I never gave much thought too and should have.
I know one person near where I live now built and had a well put in. He said first time he had it tested it had high levels of arsenic or something that was bad. He had it re-tested a second time and the levels of everything was fine.
Five years ago I sold the remaining part of a two building property to a school. The two buildings shared a new well which I had had drilled in 1994. The property had been used by my tenant who operated a bed and breakfast as well as full service restaurant, so their entire operation came under the supervision of the Department of Health and Human Services for occupancy and for food service. Obviously they had had to submit a water test report to DHHS. No issues.
However the new owner was going to use their new acquistion for student domicile purposes, and that required an entire new series of tests, including the well.
As previously, the well test results revealed some arsenic in the water. What was different this time though was that the standard that well water had to meet had been changed, and was lower than previously. Now the well failed.
What was done was an adjustment was made in the purchase price and 1/2 of the cost of a filtration system was borne by both the buyer and me. I believe the cost was around $10,000 for that particular system and situation (5 bedrooms, six bathrooms in that case).
If the property is worth having...enough land, enough house at a good price...filtration systems are not so expensive to make the property worthless. Perhaps you should ask the seller to adjust the sale so the well will pass state standards, and go for it. Water filtration systems are common and not terribly exotic. Many municipalities have to use water filtration systems for potable water, and they will become more and more common here in Maine.
WHO's norms for drinking-water quality go back to 1958. The International Standards for Drinking-Water established 0.20 mg/L as an allowable concentration for arsenic in that year. In 1963 the standard was re-evaluated and reduced to 0.05 mg/L. In 1984, this was maintained as WHO's "Guideline Value"; and many countries have kept this as the national standard or as an interim target. According to the last edition of the WHO Guidelines for Drinking-Water Quality (1993):"
WHO | Arsenic in drinking water (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs210/en/ - broken link)
I hope they have not yet bailed out of the contract. Most lenders require good water at the property. It is up to the seller to remedy the situation, but your parents could do it if the seller is unable. The simplest way is to buy a reverse osmosis filter. You can get one for under $200 at a Home Depot. This is for your drinking water only. You can use the rest of the system for washing clothes and bathing.
As with global warming, the environmental industry is trying to impose yet another restriction on rural people with no proven problem. People have been using wells in Maine for centuries and nobody has been harmed by our common minerals. For example, you get far more nitrites from eating hot dogs or bacon than you would ever get from exceeding "recommended levels" of nitrites from well water.
Up there in flycessna's original post he says "alowable". Allowable by whom? 0.05 mg/l is 50 parts per billion. The environmental industry now recommends 5 parts per billion. They are trying to have it made a law, again with no scientific justification. It is an effort to drive people out of areas that depend on wells such as rural America. Nothing more, nothing less.
Acadianlion must have put in a whole house system for that amount of money. No need to treat the water used for flushing the commode. It's drinking water that the bank wants tested.
This is for your drinking water only. You can use the rest of the system for washing clothes and bathing.
This is an interesting observation. Why does everyone assume that ALL water entering a building must be potable? They fuss and fidget over what's in the well water. If it's OK for washing, bathing, and flushing, that's about 90% of your usage right there. Water for drinking and cooking can be treated, if you wish. But to reject an otherwise perfect property for your needs, just because of the well water, is silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man
As with global warming, the environmental industry is trying to impose yet another restriction on rural people with no proven problem. People have been using wells in Maine for centuries and nobody has been harmed by our common minerals...Up there in flycessna's original post he says "alowable". Allowable by whom? 0.05 mg/l is 50 parts per billion. The environmental industry now recommends 5 parts per billion. They are trying to have it made a law, again with no scientific justification. It is an effort to drive people out of areas that depend on wells such as rural America. Nothing more, nothing less.
Right on, NMLM!!! Back to the country, everybody! To hell with what the environmental crowd wants to force down our throats! This stuff is just scare tactics, designed to get folks to say, "No mas" to a great rural property.
fly, your parents should have been offered and initialed the Maine Bureau of Health's Arsenic in Well Water brochure. I can't turn in an under contract listing that has a well (and the Arsenic in Pressure Treated Wood brochure with buyer's initials) without this. The Bureau's guideline is now .01 milligrams of arsenic per liter (mg/L) and estimates that one out of every ten wells in Maine have arsenic levels of concern. Yes, there are some band aid solutions that treat some of the water in the house, but I always advise my buyers to have the sellers pay for a whole house system. If there are grandchildren visiting and need a drink in the middle of the night, do they need to worry about which faucet they are going to use?
You mentioned high radon in the water, how did the air test? Radon in water mitigation systems can cost 4 or 5 times what an air mitigation system costs, takes up a lot of room in the basement and is expensive to run. Assuming your parents are still in the negotiating period for investigations, they can negotiate with the seller to fix these safety hazards or walk away and get their earnest money deposit back if they have not gone past the deadline in their purchase and sale agreement. If they have passed that deadline, and pull out then they are in default and their earnest money deposit can be retained by the seller. Their buyer agent should be monitoring all of this and present a written addendum to the seller's agent with enough time to negotiate a solution acceptable to all. Any water treatment system needs maintenance and a service plan (like on an oil or gas heating system) should be considered. Too many homeowners only test during real estate transfers rather than annually. As elston pointed out, many buyers are turned off my private water and will only consider city maintained water supply.
fly, your parents should have been offered and initialed the Maine Bureau of Health's Arsenic in Well Water brochure. I can't turn in an under contract listing that has a well (and the Arsenic in Pressure Treated Wood brochure with buyer's initials) without this. The Bureau's guideline is now .01 milligrams of arsenic per liter (mg/L) and estimates that one out of every ten wells in Maine have arsenic levels of concern. Yes, there are some band aid solutions that treat some of the water in the house, but I always advise my buyers to have the sellers pay for a whole house system. If there are grandchildren visiting and need a drink in the middle of the night, do they need to worry about which faucet they are going to use?
You mentioned high radon in the water, how did the air test? Radon in water mitigation systems can cost 4 or 5 times what an air mitigation system costs, takes up a lot of room in the basement and is expensive to run. Assuming your parents are still in the negotiating period for investigations, they can negotiate with the seller to fix these safety hazards or walk away and get their earnest money deposit back if they have not gone past the deadline in their purchase and sale agreement. If they have passed that deadline, and pull out then they are in default and their earnest money deposit can be retained by the seller. Their buyer agent should be monitoring all of this and present a written addendum to the seller's agent with enough time to negotiate a solution acceptable to all. Any water treatment system needs maintenance and a service plan (like on an oil or gas heating system) should be considered. Too many homeowners only test during real estate transfers rather than annually. As elston pointed out, many buyers are turned off my private water and will only consider city maintained water supply.
Good luck and let us know how they make out.
Thank you everyone!
They are retired and cash buyers.. no banks ect. in fact the water test was the "only" test they wanted and was part of the contract offer.. inspections and radon were not much of a concern for them as they have bought many homes in their lives and pretty much know what they are getting into with that stuff as radon is commen in Maine anyways... minus the water test..
I think at their age they are concerned with being burdened with the cost and effort of having to deal with a water filtration system that might need further test and filter replacements ect. they also questioned the potential resale issues that could irise later now that this is a disclosure thing.
The home is in the 250k range so I think there is enough room for negotiation with the seller to fix this... (which now she has no choice but address it even if they decide not to buy the house)...
These full fitration systems, how do they work and what kind of maintenance to they require?
JC3,
Well drillers usually do not test water except to determine the recharge rate of a well before they leave the property. Most well drillers provide a package deal with the well pump. pipe and electrical to the house. Your electrician and plumber make the indoor connections. If your well driller uses an 8 inch drill the well will contain 2.6 gallons per foot so the amount of volume of water available in the well is the depth of water above your pump in feet times 2.6. If you have 100 feet of water over the pump you will have 260 gallons of water available, not counting the recharge rate. My well at the house is 103 feet deep and the level is 13 to 17 feet down from the top so I have around 230 gallons of water in the well at any given time. I have never measured my recharge rate. It is relatively high. I have a friend with a well that has over 100 gallons per minute recharge rate.
My dug well at camp has concrete tiles that are 36 inches inside diameter. I just measured the water level and I have 54 inches in the well. That is 237 gallons, but the intake is not on the bottom so I have just under 200 gallons available in the well.
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