treegrowth plan (good/bad) (Bangor, Brewer: fit in, assessors, home)

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by wnc-eky-me

... But as a Future Forester I couldn't write a plan for this person that says that if they have over mature dying trees, there isn't any "tree growth" going on so you have to cut and replant or let come back natural if feasible. ...

I have spoken at length with the Forester that I bought my land from; I have spoken with my contracted Forester; I have attended two woodlot management workshops conducted by State Foresters.

Everytime that I have brought up 'replanting' they look at me like I have two heads.

I have been repeatedly told that woodlot management in Maine does not include re-planting of the trees that you cut down. Re-planting would immediately replace the trees. The predominate method in Maine is to wait for nature to decide to re-plant, this method may take 80 years, or it may take longer.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

You are indeed required to state your intentions within one year of the closing. However, if the original plan has a few years to go you can continue that plan and save yourself about $300 for the time being. The original 10 year plan can continue.

When you do renew your plan, remember to "to stop at go" and collect your $200 from the state. If you don't ask they won't send you your $200.

[Northern Maine Land Man]

Nearly all regeneration in Maine is natural. In fact it takes a great deal of work in Maine to prevent forests. Just ask Central Maine Power or Bangor Hydro how much work it takes every year to keep trees out from under their power lines.

Only if you want to change the species in your wood lot does it make sense to plant. I have planted some oaks. I'll never see them harvested, but I expect my grandson will.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

Nearly all regeneration in Maine is natural. In fact it takes a great deal of work in Maine to prevent forests. Just ask Central Maine Power or Bangor Hydro how much work it takes every year to keep trees out from under their power lines.

That is what I have been told.

We have been stationed in other areas where re-planting is the law. In Washington they had two years within which to complete the re-planting.

You can see billboards that show: the owner's name [usually a timber company], the last date of cutting, the date of re-planting, and the projected year of the next harvest. Highly efficient.

[wnc-eky-me]

Originally Posted by forest beekeeper

I have spoken at length with the Forester that I bought my land from; I have spoken with my contracted Forester; I have attended two woodlot management workshops conducted by State Foresters.

Everytime that I have brought up 'replanting' they look at me like I have two heads.

I have been repeatedly told that woodlot management in Maine does not include re-planting of the trees that you cut down. Re-planting would immediately replace the trees. The predominate method in Maine is to wait for nature to decide to re-plant, this method may take 80 years, or it may take longer.

Well I guess you learn something new everyday. My main experience is in North Carolina when I was a ranger with the NC forest service and we use to plant around 8000 acres a year just in a 50 mile radius of where I lived and worked. The NCFS had a huge facility where they grew and sold seedlings at a rate of $40/1000trees (loblolly Pines won't grow in Maine) the mountain region would plant eastern White Pine which I know grows in maine and they were cheap too, but we also had lots of other species for sale, hardwoods, softwoods, swamp species, ornamental all very cheap considering. I guess I just assumed ME did the same. But we all know what happens when we assume.

You know we use to have immigrant tree planters who use to come down and live in a camper in NC. They were from Maine and said there tree planting season was over or hadn't began yet. But maybe they were not telling the truth?

But yeah I guess you have to be extra careful when you harvest and what you leave out there because whats left out there will seed the rest of the area. And most logging sites I have seen, what is left standing wasn't worth the loggers time to get then you probably don't want that reseeding your land. Also if you don't want Pines then cut them down in summer before the fall and you will severly limit your viable seed amount in the soil since their seeds fall in Autumn. But if youwant Pine then cut in winter. It is a relavent!
S

[Northern Maine Land Man]

When Maine's forest was owned by a dozen paper mills they did indeed plant, mostly black spruce. When our legislature changed the forest practices act all the paper companies sold their land. If you can't plan you can't manage. Now there is no planting done, but those guys who came down from Maine were indeed telling the truth several years ago. They were also greatly surprised to see Westvaco harvesting trees by yanking the whole tree out of the ground. Shaking gthe dirt off the stump and putting the whole thing through a chipper. We sure don't do that in Maine becuase the roots would be wrapped right around a bunch of rocks.

I know Unity College must have graduated a few business oriented foresters somewhere along the way. However, the general philosophy down there is that profits are bad; corporations are evil and government should own all the land. There is a name for such a system, but it isn't mentioned in polite company.

Let me run down the list of big paper companies from the last 40 years.

Diamond Match - gone
St. Regis - gone
Oxford Paper - gone
Eastern Fine Paper - gone
Lincoln Pulp & Paper - gone
International paper - gone
Statler Paper - gone
Georgia Pacific - gone
Champion Paper - gone
Scott Paper - gone
Great Northern Paper - gone and back under a new name
Nekoosa Edwards - gone
Bowater - gone
Boise Cascade - gone
Mead - gone
Otis - gone

There were a couple of little paper mills around Augusta whose names I can't remember. They are gone and there was a fine paper company in Westbrook that had a great R&D department. They were bought out by SAPPI from Africa. (I remembered. It was SD Warren.) There; Now I can go to bed.

Fraser Paper is still running under its own name. They are owned by a Canadian company (Noranda) now.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by wnc-eky-me

Well I guess you learn something new everyday. My main experience is in North Carolina when I was a ranger with the NC forest service and we use to plant around 8000 acres a year just in a 50 mile radius of where I lived and worked. The NCFS had a huge facility where they grew and sold seedlings at a rate of $40/1000trees (loblolly Pines won't grow in Maine) the mountain region would plant eastern White Pine which I know grows in maine and they were cheap too, but we also had lots of other species for sale, hardwoods, softwoods, swamp species, ornamental all very cheap considering. I guess I just assumed ME did the same. But we all know what happens when we assume.

Here you sit back and wait for nature.

When nature decides to grow a species of tree that you do not like, then you crop-dust with agent orange.

Kill the trees and wait once again to see what nature will re-plant with. Maybe in the next decade's re-planting a different species will grow, or maybe you will have to crop-dust again.

About 50 acres of the woodlot that I am managing was crop dusted the year before I began managing it.

... But yeah I guess you have to be extra careful when you harvest and what you leave out there because whats left out there will seed the rest of the area.

Well yeah, sort of.

You could leave one tree as a source for re-seeding. But I have been advised not to.

Cut down everything marketable, then review the area and if you don't like what you see kill it all. Eventually nature will figure out what species you will allow to grow, and nature will re-seed that species.

... And most logging sites I have seen, what is left standing wasn't worth the loggers time to get then you probably don't want that reseeding your land. Also if you don't want Pines then cut them down in summer before the fall and you will severly limit your viable seed amount in the soil since their seeds fall in Autumn. But if youwant Pine then cut in winter. It is a relavent!
S

hmm

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

...
I know Unity College must have graduated a few business oriented foresters somewhere along the way. However, the general philosophy down there is that profits are bad; corporations are evil and government should own all the land. There is a name for such a system, but it isn't mentioned in polite company.

The woodlot management workshops that I have attended, were located very near Unity College. Within an easy bicycle ride of the campus.

At those workshops I have seen fellow woodlot owners whose intent was 'profit', their concerns and questions have consistently been swept aside; in favour of the natural 'feng shui' of the forest.

Profit seeking woodlot owners are advised to seek out private Foresters who are willing to be contracted under those terms, but those ideas will not be tolerated at the workshops.

I am certain that a few "business oriented foresters" must have gotten through the system over the decades.



"the general philosophy down there is that profits are bad; corporations are evil and government should own all the land"

I would agree with that observation, with one possible exception. I have not heard so much about government ownership of the forests. So long as the government controls the forests, does not allow people into the forests, and restricts what owners can do; then they are fine with private ownership.

[kellysmith]

Reading about cutting pine brings back memories of my youth. Worked in the woods during summers and school vacations until I was through college. Pine wasn't cut during the summer months for two reasons. First one was the wood stained if cut when there was a lot of sap in the tree. You've probably seen a pine board with black/blue stain in the wood grain...second reason was the trees would shatter if fell onto the bare ground. During the winter, the sap was down, and the snow cushioned the falling tree. I'm talking about trees that were 3 to 4 ft on the stump, and they would shatter the top where it was over a foot in diameter when they fell even into several feet of snow. I can't say I've ever seen a huge pine fall onto bare ground, but I imagine it would destroy quite a bit of valuable lumber. Again, maybe a pine a foot on the stump wouldn't be so bad, but the big bad boys of the past would have splintered a lot of wood.

[wnc-eky-me]

"Pine wasn't cut during the summer months for two reasons. First one was the wood stained if cut when there was a lot of sap in the tree. You've probably seen a pine board with black/blue stain in the wood grain"

Actually the black/blue stain you are referring to is a fungus and has nothing to do with sap. This fungus is called "blue stain fungus" and is brought in by pine beetles (Ips, Turpetine, and in the south the infamous Southern pine beetle). When they bore into the tree to lay their eggs they are carrying this fungus on their legs and inadvertenly leave the fungus behind along with their larvae. The larvae can girldle the tree killing it and the blue stain fungus decomposes it. But It doesn't matter when you cut the tree in terms of the blue stain if a tree has it you can cut it a midnight on a below freezing night (no sap running then) and you will still have blue stained wood. You can still use this wood but it has to be dry kilned to dry out or kill the fungi. But the stain that is already there will stay there no matter dry kiln or not.

And actually in Asheville NC area there was a demand for this wood for it's character, but I actually believe it was so they could save these poor little trees from the chipper. (Asheville people are affectionately know as C.A.V.E people or Citizens Against Virtually Everything or Sierra Club members etc.) But hey the landowners who were infested loved it because they could actually get a decent price for their wood. So one example of the two sides benefitting the other. Although it doesn't happen often.