Why so many covid 19 cases and deaths in LA County (Los Angeles: to relocate, unsafe)

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Now we know why the booster rate is so low. Even before it turned out the vaccines don't do much good for people who are healthy and relatively young and for all lose some effectiveness quickly, many people (selfish/reckless, I say) were only being vaccinated due to coercion. (Vaccines: generally good for your health and apparently adults never outgrow the stereotypical resistance to them as kids, for whom there is no choice.)

Why should I take a shot because "vaccines are generally good for your health" (especially when they had to change the definition of vaccine to call this one a vaccine)?

How about, show me where I'm at appreciable risk from the pathogen in the first place, and/or show me that if enough people take the shot, we'll have herd immunity to the pathogen.

If you can't do any of that, then guess what, there's the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out, and I'll send you the carpet cleaning bill for the mud you tracked in.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

Why should I take a shot because "vaccines are generally good for your health" (especially when they had to change the definition of vaccine to call this one a vaccine)?

How about, show me where I'm at appreciable risk from the pathogen in the first place, and/or show me that if enough people take the shot, we'll have herd immunity to the pathogen.

If you can't do any of that, then guess what, there's the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out, and I'll send you the carpet cleaning bill for the mud you tracked in.

Crawling out, huh?

If you're middle-aged (and most of the users here are at least that), as also male and regardless of other health factors you are at appreciable risk of acute, bad problems from the virus. (Maybe everyone is at risk for long-term or late-onset complications, but the science is still fuzzy on that.)

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by skyway31

Yep. All three shots for me were followed by being the most sick I've been in many, many years. I don't regret the first two shots. But, the third was a bit of coercion as I was visiting Switzerland and they had a 270 day rule I was afraid would ruin my trip. So I got a third shot just prior. There won't be a fourth shot for me. And I've never had Covid (or gotten sick enough to test positive anyway). Like you said (and this will be deleted I'm sure), MANY people were fully vaccinated and still got sick from Covid. Those folks don't figure to be persuaded to get more shots.

There we go. Some of the ranting comes from a grudge against vaccination.

Authorities never promised breakthrough infection would be mild, only that a life-threatening reaction would be quite unlikely for almost all.

Almost all vaccines wear off. Don't blame anyone but scientists for that. No boosters = problems eventually. Also, many people not long after vaccination for various common illnesses can get infected, often so mild they don't notice. That is a reason many vaccines mandated for children haven't gotten rid of the underlying viruses. Vaccine companies and the government don't exactly gain from discussing that.

I've had 4 shots, I think with 2 times where I felt quite bad for more than a day. (Edit: I forgot to mention that in one case, I got another vaccine at the same time, learned my lesson.) People usually feel close to normal in 2 days, I was told. It's better than many days sick with an infection (plus the real possibility of post-viral issues) per little or no prior immunity.

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by skyway31

Yep. All three shots for me were followed by being the most sick I've been in many, many years. I don't regret the first two shots. But, the third was a bit of coercion as I was visiting Switzerland and they had a 270 day rule I was afraid would ruin my trip. So I got a third shot just prior. There won't be a fourth shot for me. And I've never had Covid (or gotten sick enough to test positive anyway). Like you said (and this will be deleted I'm sure), MANY people were fully vaccinated and still got sick from Covid. Those folks don't figure to be persuaded to get more shots.

Another important note is people aren't at the mercy of hearing biased opinions. Prior to getting the vaccine, if you asked people's experience online, the zealots would tell you it was a cakewalk and the side effects were nothing. People that were against it would tell you it was death warmed over. Now many people have experienced both and know exactly how it felt for them, so no opinions needed. They can also see all the 'breakthrough' cases themselves so they also don't have to rely on commentary claiming the vaccine protects you from getting Covid. Admittedly, about 6-8 months ago if the topic came up, some people would still start in with how the experience was for them. I'd stop them and simply explain their experience wasn't relevant to me as I will rely on my own personal experience since I have had the vaccine and Covid and know what was worse for me.

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

There we go. Some of the ranting comes from a grudge against vaccination.

Authorities never promised breakthrough infection would be mild, only that a life-threatening reaction would be quite unlikely for almost all.

Almost all vaccines wear off. Don't blame anyone but scientists for that. No boosters = problems eventually. Also, many people not long after vaccination for various common illnesses can get infected, often so mild they don't notice. That is a reason many vaccines mandated for children haven't gotten rid of the underlying viruses. Vaccine companies and the government don't exactly gain from discussing that.

I've had 4 shots, I think with 2 times where I felt quite bad for more than a day. (Edit: I forgot to mention that in one case, I got another vaccine at the same time, learned my lesson.) People usually feel close to normal in 2 days, I was told. It's better than many days sick with an infection (plus the real possibility of post-viral issues) per little or no prior immunity.

A “grudge”? No. Nice try, but no. More like many of us learned that these particular vaccines cause one to be ill for a couple of days. Given that I never get ill like that, it’s a downside that makes 4th and beyond shots a net negative. Certainly, there’s no data to the contrary.

Authorities absolutely promised they would block infection entirely, not to mention block severe illness. This statement of yours is so infuriatingly false it causes one to wonder if you’re actually engaged in a drawn out, more subtle version of trolling.

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

Another important note is people aren't at the mercy of hearing biased opinions. Prior to getting the vaccine, if you asked people's experience online, the zealots would tell you it was a cakewalk and the side effects were nothing. People that were against it would tell you it was death warmed over. Now many people have experienced both and know exactly how it felt for them, so no opinions needed. They can also see all the 'breakthrough' cases themselves so they also don't have to rely on commentary claiming the vaccine protects you from getting Covid. Admittedly, about 6-8 months ago if the topic came up, some people would still start in with how the experience was for them. I'd stop them and simply explain their experience wasn't relevant to me as I will rely on my own personal experience since I have had the vaccine and Covid and know what was worse for me.

Indeed. The pushing of the narrative that the after effects were a total breeze was yet another “noble lie” that was used to encourage vaccination. It was another example of how these “noble lies” told in service of manipulating behavior in what was believed to be the best direction instead had a devastating effect on public trust. While I’m of the belief that I did the right thing to get vaccinated- I drove an hour from my home for the first available appointment in south LA on March 3, 2021 for the first shot- the lying about how much of a breeze the after effects are caused me to lose trust. Among many other factors as well…

[skyway31]

Something else which https://jme.bmj.com/content/early/20...me-2022-108449has eroded trust regarding vaccines is the (intentional?) lack of distinction in advice based on age and other risk factors. It’s been a blanket, all ages, no questions asked campaign. This is despite the fact that the elderly have always been at substantially higher risk and young men face legitimate concerns about myocarditis from the MRNA vaccines. This is out very recently, and the media figures to ignore and then, if necessary, disparage this:

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by skyway31

In the case of covid, people want to see evidence that getting a booster will improve their chances of either avoiding infection or, particularly, reducing their odds (from where they currently are) of avoiding severe outcomes like hospitalization or death. Now, I know, I know: the government has paid a lot of money to purchase advertisements for television, radio and other places to tell us that the bivalent boosters do this. So, that's the evidence, right?

No, that isn't the evidence.

While the efficacy of the shots varied depending on a person’s vaccine history, data published in a recent U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report found consistently boosted defense across all adult age groups.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/...cid=mm7148e1_w

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

How about, show me where I'm at appreciable risk from the pathogen in the first place

Obvious if you look at the stats for L.A. alone: LA County Daily COVID-19 Data - LA County Department of Public Health

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

and/or show me that if enough people take the shot, we'll have herd immunity to the pathogen.

The measles vaccine creates sterilizing immunity. The Covid-19 vaccines do not. SARS-CoV-2 mutates continually into new variants that can escape immunity derived from infections and vaccines.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/226/2/195/6561438

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

No, that isn't the evidence.

While the efficacy of the shots varied depending on a person’s vaccine history, data published in a recent U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report found consistently boosted defense across all adult age groups.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/...cid=mm7148e1_w

Not accounted for in the study was prior infection. So, disregarding prior infection or lack thereof, they offer the following results: “Relative vaccine effectiveness (rVE) of a bivalent booster dose compared with that of ≥2 monovalent vaccine doses among persons for whom 2–3 months and ≥8 months had elapsed since last monovalent dose was 30% and 56% among persons aged 18–49 years, 31% and 48% among persons aged 50–64 years, and 28% and 43% among persons aged ≥65 years, respectively.” Hence, people of sound reasoning can conclude the bivalent boosters aren’t worth the hassle. Also discouraging is the fact that Pfizer’s CEO and the Director of the CDC both got infected shortly after receiving the booster. It’s a waste of time. Of course, it’s also a waste of taxpayer dollars (or the inflation hit from printing money), and so having as few doses go to waste as possible is desirable for the “optics”.