How would YOU resolve LA's homeless problem? (lofts, to live)
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Absolutely not true. There are jobs to the point where immigrants come here for those jobs.
You need to address why these people felt out of the workforce. Addiction, lack of education, criminal records, and other issues.
The illegal immigrants work for less than US citizens, thus driving down the wages offered. Get rid of the illegals and the wages would go up, more jobs would be available for US citizens, and at a better pay rate.
People left the workforce because the US economy is so bad that there are insufficient jobs available to employ all US citizens who want to work. These are middle class people and middle class jobs. Some seek government assistance (and get it), others are left with nothing but to attempt to compete with the bottom of the market, already dominated by illegals.
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Originally Posted by Finper
How is the state supposed to pay for homeless housing??? Maybe they can reduce Union pensions??? Oh yea that's impossible
Actually the more I type the less I care about the homeless. I'd rather worry about more important problems. Prioritize.
And if "smarty" is right that there are already funds, then tell me why we don't do it. I'll go along with anything that doesn't raise my taxes or take away services and benefits I already get.
What your rant demonstrates more than anything is: total ignorance of every aspect of homelessness - and also zero grasp of human nature and crisis.
Some examples of things you've been told and ignore:
The "study advocating that it would cost taxpayers so much less to dramatically fund mass housing construction" - isn't a theoretical study. It's reporting of proven, operational programs existing in various cities.
Crackheads and other addicts don't become as they are due to any sense of entitlement. People aren't waiting for an opportunity to destroy themselves with failure and infirmity, pain, sickness and suffering, embarrassment and humiliation, and to live filthy and scared and hungry. They fall into it for individual reasons of disadvantage coupled with weakness and lack of other opportunity to thrive.
Race has very little to do with any of this.
Aside from any judgement of moral repugnance with regard to just killing off the chronic homeless - this IS the United States of America and not some sleazy third-world barrio country with little to no regard for ethics and human life. The laws do not allow euthanizing undesirable elements. Nor are they ever going to change in that regard. So the point remains: what are you going to do with these dregs? Leave them in their filth and crime and disruptive behaviors on the streets to interfere with everyone else? Or deal with them as effectively and efficiently as possible - in ethically humane ways as our culture respects?
Oh but this is not that different from what you call the third world. LA leaves the homeless concentrated in certain parts of town and left to rot. It's very easy for the well of to avoid them. Don't see to many homeless in municipalities like Beverly Hills. They simply are not allowed. They are concentrated where they put the services to barely maintain them and yes they are allowed to rot in their on filth. If the city ever decides to fully gentrify downtown new shelters can be placed in the Inland Empire. No one has an obligation to these fools.
Mind you in NYC they are not allowed to congregate, the police can arrest them. The only think stopping the LAPD from ending skid row is court orders. Change the judges in the court system and you free the LAPD to take a very different approach. That day will come one day.
The illegal immigrants work for less than US citizens, thus driving down the wages offered. Get rid of the illegals and the wages would go up, more jobs would be available for US citizens, and at a better pay rate.
People left the workforce because the US economy is so bad that there are insufficient jobs available to employ all US citizens who want to work. These are middle class people and middle class jobs. Some seek government assistance (and get it), others are left with nothing but to attempt to compete with the bottom of the market, already dominated by illegals.
Actually the more I type the less I care about the homeless. I'd rather worry about more important problems. Prioritize.
And if "smarty" is right that there are already funds, then tell me why we don't do it. I'll go along with anything that doesn't raise my taxes or take away services and benefits I already get.
Why don't you get going and make it happen?
Of course the crackhead you see on the street and not interested in working. No reason to blame their plight on immigrants.
Actually the more I type the less I care about the homeless. I'd rather worry about more important problems. Prioritize.
And if "smarty" is right that there are already funds, then tell me why we don't do it. I'll go along with anything that doesn't raise my taxes or take away services and benefits I already get.
Why don't you get going and make it happen?
I have nothing against prioritizing.
People who care about homelessness do so for one, two, or three of the following reasons:
1. they find them an irritating, potentially dangerous, disgusting imposition
2. they are irritated that they cost so much to deal with on the streets
3. they are concerned for their fellow men/women who are in such condition
It is doubtful you don't fall into at least one of these categories. Even conservatives living out of range of any homelessness are generally pissed at the costs.
"Smarty" is right. That's why he's known wide and far as "Smarty".
How would you know if Smarty isn't "getting it going?"
Oh but this is not that different from what you call the third world. LA leaves the homeless concentrated in certain parts of town and left to rot. It's very easy for the well of to avoid them. Don't see to many homeless in municipalities like Beverly Hills. They simply are not allowed. They are concentrated where they put the services to barely maintain them and yes they are allowed to rot in their on filth. If the city ever decides to fully gentrify downtown new shelters can be placed in the Inland Empire. No one has an obligation to these fools.
Mind you in NYC they are not allowed to congregate, the police can arrest them. The only think stopping the LAPD from ending skid row is court orders. Change the judges in the court system and you free the LAPD to take a very different approach. That day will come one day.
LA is not a bit like the third world even on Skid Row when it comes to laws on euthanasia and civil rights.
If you are convinced the right course of action is to kill off these folks, go buy a gun and get busy. See how third world the cops and courts consider your actions.
Of course the crackhead you see on the street and not interested in working. No reason to blame their plight on immigrants.
I haven't seen any crackheads in years, and then only once. Walking skeleton with bad complexion, didn't look at the teeth but probably rotten and falling out. Looked nervous to me.
Drug use is just so crazy, especially crack, coke, heroin and all the other hard drugs. I think even soft drugs (pot) are crazy, but it's your life if you use it, not mine. I'll keep my health and sanity, thank you.
There is a statistical connection between frequent marijuana use and incidence of clinical depression.
Of the homeless people I see (filthy, shopping cart full of junk, often smells of pot, always smells of tobacco, or for that matter just plain smells) my best guess is that many of them are schizophrenic or otherwise mentally ill, mind you I'm just talking about street homeless I see in Van Nuys and Sherman Oaks. I minored in Psych in college but admit that only an accredited (Psy.D) can perform a valid diagnosis, and then only after some degree of interaction and interviewing.
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Between 250,000 individuals with schizophrenia or manic-depressive illness are homeless among the 744,000 homeless population (total homeless population statistic based on data from a 2007 national survey).
You should read the whole article or Google "what percentage of homeless are schizophrenic" (my search terms).
It's just one survey, but if that sample is typical then about one-third of the homeless are schizo or manic-depressive. That supports my position that many homeless are mentally ill. I guess I can't logically prove that they don't want to be sheltered because of their illness, but that is what I understand and believe. I have a Psy.D friend I can ask about incidence of mental illness among the homeless.
At least the schizos could be medicated into being fairly rational but they don't like to take the medication because it makes them feel horrible, and would rather be crazy than feel awful. There exist many drugs for treating manic-depression, not sure if there is the same problem about not tolerating the side effects. To the limited degree I have studied MD treatment I get the feeling the drugs aren't as bad as anti-schzo treatments.
BTW lots of mentally ill people self-medicate themselves with illegal drugs and alcohol. I'd be totally shocked if the incidence of illegal drug use and alcoholism is much greater among the homeless population than in the general population. They do it because it feels better than being crazy, and takes their minds off their problems and squalor.
That's not to say they shouldn't be housed if they can be convinced to accept the help.
If any readers at this point are curious to read specific examples of how Housing First works and absolutely demolishes the myths repeated here in this thread over and over and over: Mental disorders keep thousands of homeless on streets
The only reason why the US doesn't crack down harder on this population is because people hide behind race ,and the US hasn't solved it's racial problems. But in countries where the majority of the people are either Black or otherwise not white, the society has so little tolerance for this they would KILL the people you just mentioned.
The study advocating that it would cost taxpayers so much less to dramatically fund mass housing construction. Who funded it and who did the study? Was it people in the social services system? Of course they would say this, more funding of welfare equals more jobs for people in social services. Whether it's good for the rest of taxpayers is an entirely different matter.
There are dozens of studies and all of them demonstrate that it costs 3 or 4 times more to leave the homeless on the streets as it does to house them, just google it my friend.
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Oh I take that back, let's go to the solutions we have in Asia, Latin America, and the Caribbean. Cherry pick the homeless, offer help to the nice ones, and the ones who cannot or will not behave can face the firing squad.
Almost all nations have homeless, and I don't know of any that systematically round them up and shoot them, so how about you back that up with a source
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
The problem is ENTITLEMENT. The more you let crackheads think they are entitled to everything for free, the more you encourage bad behavior. If we had easy welfare they way you want it, anybody could go out in the streets, drink some booze or do other drugs, not bathe for a week, act crazy and DEMAND an apartment!
Where do they get all this 'welfare' the only people in the US who can get welfare are parents with minor children, single adults at the very most are eligible for county paid general assistance which is usually a few hundred a month for 3 months once every few years- you really don't get out much do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
NYC has more people and more homeless people than LA, but the NYPD does not let homeless people congregate in large numbers like LA allows them too. The cops would seize their **** and destroy it, and force them to move along. You can even be arrested for loitering in NYC and they do indeed enforce that. So much of the homeless population here is in shelters.
You can round up the homeless all you want but it's a bit like herding cats. You can't jail people for not having a place to live it would be unconstitutional to do so. The problem is that you can have cops patrolling and deterring crime or you can have them arresting homeless people for 'loitering' but each of those arrests will not result in any jail time and will take that cop off the street for 5-7 hours while processing the arrested person, multiply that times a few hundred times a day and you'd better get ready to pay more taxes to hire a significant number of additional cops.
If any readers at this point are curious to read specific examples of how Housing First works and absolutely demolishes the myths repeated here in this thread over and over and over: Mental disorders keep thousands of homeless on streets
Great article, I hope some of the people offering their "opinion" in this thread will read it.
Huh? More white people are homeless than are any other race.
There are dozens of studies and all of them demonstrate that it costs 3 or 4 times more to leave the homeless on the streets as it does to house them, just google it my friend.
Almost all nations have homeless, and I don't know of any that systematically round them up and shoot them, so how about you back that up with a source
Where do they get all this 'welfare' the only people in the US who can get welfare are parents with minor children, single adults at the very most are eligible for county paid general assistance which is usually a few hundred a month for 3 months once every few years- you really don't get out much do you?
You can round up the homeless all you want but it's a bit like herding cats. You can't jail people for not having a place to live it would be unconstitutional to do so. The problem is that you can have cops patrolling and deterring crime or you can have them arresting homeless people for 'loitering' but each of those arrests will not result in any jail time and will take that cop off the street for 5-7 hours while processing the arrested person, multiply that times a few hundred times a day and you'd better get ready to pay more taxes to hire a significant number of additional cops.
Do your own research onto the matter. But some things you can't just go by internet sources.
For some thing you need to go in PERSON and to see things for yourself.
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