Why Doesn't L.A. Have a Little Italy? (Los Angeles, San Francisco: hotel, homes)

[fastfilm]

Industrious, hard-working people, many from the East coast and midwest originally, with a well-founded rep for geniality and stupendously good cuisine. It's just that Americans of Italian ancestry consider themselves to be Americans of Italian ancestry, rather than hyphenates or a foreign nationals, according to every one I've met or known.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by fastfilm

It's just that Americans of Italian ancestry consider themselves to be Americans of Italian ancestry, rather than hyphenates or a foreign nationals, according to every one I've met or known.

Wonder if this is true of the immigrant generation. A second, third or fourth generation descendant of an immigrant has a completely different view of his or her cultural and national identity than the immigrant him or her self. I doubt that too many Americans who have moved to Italy (or wherever) consider themselves Italian (or whatever). The children of these individuals who are born and raised in Italy might, but not the American who emigrates.

But there is a strange twist on all of this. Under American law, if U.S. Nationals have children abroad, those children are American, not nationals of the land they're born. Isn't this perhaps an American attempt to hold on to something of the "homeland"? I won't call it hypocrisy when I hear Americans complain that foreigners in the U.S. do the same thing. I'll let it stand with enough said that each of us has a right to determine for ourselves who and what we are, be that a hyphenated this or that or not.

[PureHapa]

I'm a US National born abroad. Every country has its own system. In the country I was born in, your nationality is determined by your father's nationality. So I was considered an American either way, although when I came to the US I had to be "Naturalized".

[songcry]

interesting. i always wondered the same thing. thanks for the info everybody.

[TonyT]

I had hoped that my previous post would provide a little education to people regarding the history of Italians in Los Angeles and that others would elaborate on it. Unfortunately, all that has happened is more comments that seem to totally ignore or deny the role of Italians in the development of the city. So here is my attempt at a history lesson.

The first Italian to settle in Los Angeles was Giovanni Leandri. He arrived in 1823. He opened a store and built an adobe home in La Plaza, the center of Los Angeles at that time. The site of his house was next to where the Plaza Firehouse stands today. He went on to marry Maria Francesca Uribe, a native Californian, and became the owner of Rancho Los Coyotes, a 48,000 acre ranch where Buena Park is today. He was instrumental in the development of the wine and agriculture business in the Los Angeles area.

Most of the early Italians that came to Los Angeles were involved in either wine making, farming, or opened stores, restaurants, and boarding houses. Antonio Pelanconi, who arrived in 1853, became one of the most prominent Italian residents of Los Angeles due mostly to his involvement in the wine making industry. In 1857, he purchased, from another Italian, what would become the Pelanconi House, the first and oldest brick building still standing in Los Angeles. It was his personal residence but is now the site of the La Golondrina restaurant, an Olvera Street landmark.

By 1869, Los Angeles was the center of the wine industry in the entire state of California. In the Plaza area alone, there were five Italian owned wineries. One of the wineries was owned by Secondo Guasti who ran a restaurant and boarding house in the Avila Adobe, which still stands today. In 1883 , Guasti founded the Italian Vineyard Company, purchasing 5,000 acres in Cucamonga and creating what at the time was the largest vineyard in the world.

By the late 1800's, Italians owned or managed one third of all the businesses that made up the Olvera Street area. By 1900, there were 3,000 Italians living in Los Angeles. At that time, the Italian Quarter or Little Italy, was made up of the Plaza, New Chinatown, the foothills of Elysian Park, and Lincoln Heights. By the 1930's, there were an estimated 30,000 Italians living in Los Angeles.

After the Second World War, many Italians began to move out of the downtown area into the San Gabriel Valley, becoming a significant presence in the cities of Alhambra, San Gabriel and Rosemead. However, many Italian businesses survived in the Olvera Street area into the 1950's and 1960's.

Italians became involved in many types of endeavors. They made up, along with the Croatians and Greeks, the bulk of the fishing industry based in San Pedro. This is one reason why S. Cabrillo Avenue in that city is also known as Via Italia. There is estimated to still be 45,000 Americans of Italian descent living in San Pedro. Others, like my great grandparents, became farmers in the San Fernando Valley. Some became involved in politics. In 1874, Frank Sabichi, an Italian, became President of the Los Angeles City Council. Giorgio Vignolo, another Italian, was City Assessor from 1882 to 1884. More recently, Ernani Bernardi, former Big Band musician and contractor, served on the Los Angeles City Council as representative of the east San Fernando Valley from 1961 to 1993.

From a cultural standpoint, the city has two very significant contributions by Italians. One is the Watts Towers, hand built by Sabato (Simon) Rodia between 1921 and 1954. If one wonders what an Italian was doing in Watts, as I said in my earlier post, Watts, until the late 1950's early 1960's was primarily a white neighborhood with a sizeable Italian population. Another contributor, Leo Politi, was a world famous illustrator and author of children's books. Beginning in 1930, he lived/worked in the Olvera Street area, doing sketches and paintings highlighting the Mexican heritage of Los Angeles. An example of his work is the mural "Blessing of the Animals" that is painted on the Biscaluiz Building in the Plaza.

To sum up, the Italian influence on Los Angeles is probably one of the greatest, untold stories in history. Unlike what one poster has stated, they were a major player in the development of the city, arriving much earlier than the Chinese (1852), the Jews (late 1800's), the Japanese (early 1900's) and the Koreans (1960's). With the restoration of the Italian Hall and the eventual opening of an Italian American Cultural Museum at that location, this history will finally be told, and the role of the Italians will be recognized and celebrated, not ignored.

[TonyT]

I would just like to add two things. First, I do not want my post to be construed as belittling the achievements of any other ethnic group that have had and continue to have an impact on the culture and development of Los Angeles. Everyone has had their role and should be thanked for it.

Second, some have stated that you can't create a Little Italy or Little Whatever, they just grow naturally. While in most cases that is true, Chinatown in Los Angeles is a perfect example of how you can create such an area. Many longtime Angelenos know that the current Chinatown is not the original. The original had pretty much ceased to exist by the 1920's, having been bulldozed to make way for the construction of Union Station. If not for the efforts of Chinese business owners to reestablish a Chinatown in Los Angeles, much like the Italians, evidence of the Chinese presence and the history of their influence on the building of Los Angeles most likely would have faded away as well.

This is not to say that we should go out and start a program to build a bunch of Little this or that's in L. A. My point is that while we are, or at least should , see ourselves as Americans first, we should do all we can to embrace and preserve the memory of our respective cultures. And in many respects, the Little Tokyo's, Chinatown's and Little Italy's of America help do just that.

[James T]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TonyT again."

[abstrak_tokatl]

Tony. thank you! i haven't read all of what you wrote but that's what i wanted to know.

[abstrak_tokatl]

Originally Posted by TonyT

I would just like to add two things. First, I do not want my post to be construed as belittling the achievements of any other ethnic group that have had and continue to have an impact on the culture and development of Los Angeles. Everyone has had their role and should be thanked for it.

Second, some have stated that you can't create a Little Italy or Little Whatever, they just grow naturally. While in most cases that is true, Chinatown in Los Angeles is a perfect example of how you can create such an area. Many longtime Angelenos know that the current Chinatown is not the original. The original had pretty much ceased to exist by the 1920's, having been bulldozed to make way for the construction of Union Station. If not for the efforts of Chinese business owners to reestablish a Chinatown in Los Angeles, much like the Italians, evidence of the Chinese presence and the history of their influence on the building of Los Angeles most likely would have faded away as well.

This is not to say that we should go out and start a program to build a bunch of Little this or that's in L. A. My point is that while we are, or at least should , see ourselves as Americans first, we should do all we can to embrace and preserve the memory of our respective cultures. And in many respects, the Little Tokyo's, Chinatown's and Little Italy's of America help do just that.

Tony. That was my point as well.

[The traveller]

Well, i decided to come to L.A and open an italian restaurant just for City-Data members. The first meal is for free. Greetings from Italy