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You are proving my point. People say teachers making 80K on long island are grossly overpaid and need to have salary cut by 30%, and then some people say a paycheck for anyone under 100K doesn't cut it ... doesn't add up. I agree cost of living is high here, I am simply using it to make a point about the common repeating thread of 'inflated' teacher salaries.
However, I think you overestimate it a bit. Saying you need more than 100K to 'cut it' for a family of four is a bit of an overstatement. Many people do it for less than that and live fine.
In all fairness, the cop lovers would describe me as a biased teacher "defender" as I'm married to one. I've never said that a teacher's salary is enough to support a family by itself...maybe after 20 years.
As for your last statement, we're talking about someone who is just moving here, not someone who bought a house in 2000 for 195K. The numbers would be very tight at 100K to ever be able to afford a decent home. This person is talking about 75K while building up student loan debt.
You are proving my point. People say teachers making 80K on long island are grossly overpaid and need to have salary cut by 30%, and then some people say a paycheck for anyone under 100K doesn't cut it ... doesn't add up. I agree cost of living is high here, I am simply using it to make a point about the common repeating thread of 'inflated' teacher salaries.
However, I think you overestimate it a bit. Saying you need more than 100K to 'cut it' for a family of four is a bit of an overstatement. Many people do it for less than that and live fine.
Can you point out where JPG71 said teachers salaries should be cut by 30? You attacking a strawman.
However, I think you overestimate it a bit. Saying you need more than 100K to 'cut it' for a family of four is a bit of an overstatement. Many people do it for less than that and live fine.
If you already OWN YOUR HOME on Long Island and bought it well before the bubble that drove the prices up to levels well above middle class incomes, you can be fine on that salary. However, anyone who thinks they are going to buy a home now on that salary and support a family of 4, they are kidding themself.
Can you point out where JPG71 said teachers salaries should be cut by 30? You attacking a strawman.
Actually I am not attacking him or anyone for that matter, I was merely using this as an example to tie in to other threads on salary. This thread supports my cost of living arguments for teacher salaries, but I am sure you will find much less reaction to this thread in regards to what people believe someone needs to make than if the person was a teacher. I have read your many posts and defenses in other threads on this matter as well and generally I agree with you on most points you make. My post on this thread came after I_Love_Long.... who has participated in threads on high taxes and teachers but I am not directly 'attacking' him either as I have read his numerous posts as well an generally consider his arguments respectful and well put. Its think its just interesting to compare similar salaries and peoples reactions to them in public vs private sector
jpg responded to my tie in post as an attack on him, which it wasn't. I responded to him only to further the point I was trying to make.
My point is not to attack anyone, its merely to suggest that either this thread is false in its claims of salary needed to get by or other threads of teachers grossly inflated salary are wrong, or a third thing is true which is that teachers should make salaries only enough to just get by.
I guess we all have our opinions on what one needs to make to get by, but I know a lot of young people making less than 100k doing fine in homes purchased in this decade. One could easily buy a low 300K house in levittown, babylon, or some other areas and live fairly well on less than 100K, but it all depends on your lifestyle and where you end up living here I guess.
This thread supports my cost of living arguments for teacher salaries
Okay, I believe you are the poster who compared teacher salaries in NC and then adjusted them COL-wise for LI, right? And then you deemed LI teacher salaries as "just right" according to COL.
I would say the thing that gets people crazy around here about public sector salaries, which of course include teachers, is that everybody in the private sector's salary on LI is not adjusted COL-wise like teachers, cops, LIRR workers, etc., and that we are a captive audience of taxpayers paying for this. When dealing with the private sector, if you don't like the price, you hire another company. Literally if we don't want the high taxes, WE are the ones who need to leave. It used to be that public sector jobs were lower-paying than private industry and had better benefits and more job security to make up for it. Things have changed to the exact opposite, so the people who are in the majority, non-public sector workers, are frustrated and angry with ever-increasing taxes funding raises they are not getting and 1950's style benefits, including pensions, which are a thing of the past for most private sector workers. Teachers used to be lower paid also to take into account the many vacations and the summers off. As for people claiming a 30% less salary should be in effect for teachers, I don't remember anyone actually posting this figure, but I could be wrong. There are other ways to save money, such as change the pension system to 401(k)s and modernize the benefits to match what is in private industry or to pro rate the salary to match the actual hours worked comparable to the private sector, who do not get so much time off. That could save money without cutting salary to low levels. I do not want to see people's salary taken away, but then again, where is it going to end? When we all are billed $20,000 a year or more for property taxes? It gets higher all the time and really right now there are plenty of people paying in the mid-teens per year for middle class homes on average-sized lots. If that is going to work, then it could, provided the private sector workers, who fund most of the taxes on the Island since they are the category of worker that makes up the considerable majority, get their salaries upped COL-wise. Should we all be unionized? Then would we not mind paying the high taxes and not feel resentful anymore when we fund the perks and raises we ourselves did not get because now we are getting them too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdairyp
My post on this thread came after I_Love_Long.... who has participated in threads on high taxes and teachers but I am not directly 'attacking' him either as I have read his numerous posts as well an generally consider his arguments respectful and well put.
Thank you! Glad you think so. I am on the "most hated" list of some that's for sure. LOL. Recently, I even had someone demand an "apology" from me (for something I did not post to him and for something which the person I posted it to did not take offense at) within 30 minutes (when I was offline enjoying the sunny weekend) or he threatened to report me to the moderators! BTW, I am a she.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdairyp
I guess we all have our opinions on what one needs to make to get by, but I know a lot of young people making less than 100k doing fine in homes purchased in this decade. One could easily buy a low 300K house in levittown, babylon, or some other areas and live fairly well on less than 100K, but it all depends on your lifestyle and where you end up living here I guess.
The bubble started to get prohibitive around mid-decade. Do these young people you know have children? They are sure expensive little tax deductions! It also depends a lot on how much money a family has been able to save for the downpayment on a low $300,000 home and on how much the property taxes are. These things can make or break you if you are like the OP and trying to support a family of 4 on much less than $100K.
Last edited by I_Love_LI_but; 06-03-2009 at 05:29 PM..
Okay, I believe you are the poster who compared teacher salaries in NC and then adjusted them COL-wise for LI, right? And then you deemed LI teacher salaries as "just right" according to COL.
I would say the thing that gets people crazy around here about public sector salaries, which of course include teachers, is that everybody in the private sector's salary on LI is not adjusted COL-wise like teachers, cops, LIRR workers, etc., and that we are a captive audience of taxpayers paying for this. When dealing with the private sector, if you don't like the price, you hire another company. Literally if we don't want the high taxes, WE are the ones who need to leave. It used to be that public sector jobs were lower-paying than private industry and had better benefits and more job security to make up for it. Things have changed to the exact opposite, so the people who are in the majority, non-public sector workers, are frustrated and angry with ever-increasing taxes funding raises they are not getting and 1950's style benefits, including pensions, which are a thing of the past for most private sector workers. Teachers used to be lower paid also to take into account the many vacations and the summers off. As for people claiming a 30% less salary should be in effect for teachers, I don't remember anyone actually posting this figure, but I could be wrong. There are other ways to save money, such as change the pension system to 401(k)s and modernize the benefits to match what is in private industry or to pro rate the salary to match the actual hours worked comparable to the private sector, who do not get so much time off. That could save money without cutting salary to low levels. I do not want to see people's salary taken away, but then again, where is it going to end? When we all are billed $20,000 a year or more for property taxes? It gets higher all the time and really right now there are plenty of people paying in the mid-teens per year for middle class homes on average-sized lots. If that is going to work, then it could, provided the private sector workers, who fund most of the taxes on the Island since they are the category of worker that makes up the considerable majority, get their salaries upped COL-wise. Should we all be unionized? Then would we not mind paying the high taxes and not feel resentful when we fund the perks and raises we ourselves do not get?
The bubble started to get prohibitive around mid-decade. Do these young people you know have children? They are sure expensive little tax deductions! It also depends a lot on how much money a family has been able to save for the downpayment on a low $300,000 home and on how much the property taxes are. These things can make or break you if you are like the OP and trying to support a family of 4 on much less than $100K.
I respect your opinion, and even do see the problem for what its worth. I whole heartedly agree that LI workers are well underpaid, but this is counteracted by the well paid NYC commuters ... this of course does not help and is of little comfort to the LI worker. I agree there will need to be changes in the public sector and if you read some of my recent posts on the matter in 'home prices far from reality thread' (a post just below one of yours incidentally), you will see that I agree concessions can be made. In that same post I actually talked about the pension and how its much less of a money draw than people think and attacking it would not solve much, and pay for health care benefits and into pension already exist in many districts. Salary is a big chunk and target for most people. In a school district which is service based, salary is always going to be a cost factor. The problem is its hard to reconcile a statement saying you need more than 100K to get by here and then say teachers need reductions. The cost of living is partially attributed to high taxes, but it by no means the most important factor. High housing cost, and high cost of everything will be here regardless of the taxes. Anyhow, the teacher issue has been beat to death and I suppose we/I should stop hijacking this thread on that matter.
Check a home affordability calculator. 5% int, 3% prop tax, 80K income, 20% down ... says you can afford a 313K home (based on traditional affordability measures). And people often go much above these levels as they are based on a debt to income level of 30 percent or so and people on LI have busted that barrier often.
The OP said they would rent a bit as well, so if they are on the borderline of able to buy, I think they could be able to rent as well. I do not disagree that they will be taking a hit in quality of life from the move, but I think the move is possible.
The people I know who bought in the last 5 years or so, make probably between 80-100k and have 1-2 children, live in mass park, nesconset, bellmore ... they are not living the high life, but they eat out, travel, live fine.
The problem is its hard to reconcile a statement saying you need more than 100K to get by here and then say teachers need reductions.
I think the thing that people go nutty on, teachers, cops, etc., is that most cops and some teachers are above the $100K mark on that one salary alone. That is where they start screaming for reductions. I don't even know what the latest "total family income" figure is for Nassau and for Suffolk, but if it's around or less than $100K, that will make the private sector employed taxpayer scream louder.
I think if the OP had said she was already a PA and would be working, people would be less cautious in their advice about the husband's salary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdairyp
The cost of living is partially attributed to high taxes, but it by no means the most important factor. High housing cost, and high cost of everything will be here regardless of the taxes.
True, a lot of things are higher ... just look at electricity. There are some things that are cheaper though around here ... jewelry, clothes, some supermarket items. I think that is because there are a lot of stores and a lot of competition here. I have met people and have relatives from other parts of the country and other parts of the world and actually they can find better bargains on some things than where they live. For example, a friend moved to MA a couple of years ago and cannot believe how high produce is compared to down here. She says some veggies are much more than meat and cannot believe it because she's used to relatively cheap veggies. I guess ours is a bit less because we have the Hunts Point market nearby, a regional hub of produce, and we also have local farms supplying produce. Not to mention ethnic food stores that can have much cheaper produce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdairyp
Anyhow, the teacher issue has been beat to death and I suppose we/I should stop hijacking this thread on that matter.
Yeah. Somehow a lot of threads turn to the topic of public sector employees and taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdairyp
And people often go much above these levels as they are based on a debt to income level of 30 percent or so and people on LI have busted that barrier often.
There was a thread on here awhile back where people wrote in their total housing cost vs. income level and many were above 30%. I don't exactly remember the highest, but somehow the figure of 49% is coming to mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdairyp
The OP said they would rent a bit as well, so if they are on the borderline of able to buy, I think they could be able to rent as well. I do not disagree that they will be taking a hit in quality of life from the move, but I think the move is possible.
I suggested they rent until the OP becomes a PA because renting costs a lot less than owning. dman posted a reasonable rental not too far from where the husband is going to work. If they rent the move is definitely possible on the salary. If they want to buy on just the husband's income is where it might very well get too tight.
. . Anyhow, the teacher issue has been beat to death and I suppose we/I should stop hijacking this thread on that matter.
.
Ummmm....."we" - how about "I ALWAYS hijack these threads and post the same lame justifications over and over again".
Really, save yourself the trouble and just cut and paste your old posts. It will be so much easier for you. And maybe for once admit you are a teacher. Who ONLY talks about money and not how great the job is, likes kids, etc.
Ummmm....."we" - how about "I ALWAYS hijack these threads and post the same lame justifications over and over again".
Really, save yourself the trouble and just cut and paste your old posts. It will be so much easier for you. And maybe for once admit you are a teacher. Who ONLY talks about money and not how great the job is, likes kids, etc.
Good one, very constructive. This is the first time I have myself brought up teacher salary, every other instance was simply a defense of someone else's whining.
Those with nothing to say like you, say nothing of interest or value. Knee jerk reactions with little backup or reality. Teacher, I have admitted it, read my posts. (https://www.city-data.com/forum/long-...ml#post8072321). The threads are about money, so this is what is discussed, job conditions etc. is not relevant to such a discussion. You live in a fantasy land and don't want to look at the reality of what is feasible. I admit problems and grant the need for concessions which is more than I can say than most defending their positions on here.
Why don't you take your own advice and paste your statements with nothing to offer but your own brand of meaningless spite "Those who can, do. Those who can't defend the indefensible. Er, I mean teach" Very profound, clearly you have a gripe. Maybe you didn't even graduate high school and have a bone to grind.
Your opinions are not the majority, unlike what you would like to believe
"When asked about “cutting current teachers’ salaries, pension plan and other benefits in order to reduce school property taxes,” 65% of Long Islanders were somewhat or strongly opposed. Even among respondents aged 65 and older, who are often the strongest supporters of proposals to curb school spending in order to lower taxes, 59% opposed the proposal. When asked whether they would consider cutting salaries, pension plans or other benefits for new teachers, there was a similar response: 61% were opposed."
See. This is what a real post looks like. It has relevant ideas, references outside sources and is not merely some emotional rhetoric from an angry taxpayer. I have just taught you something, your tax dollars at work yet again. good work.
Where on green earth are these 300K houses in Babylon that people keep talking about? Mls doesn't show a single 3 bedroom house in Babylon, in Babylon SD, for less than 349K. Yes, there are a few in North Babylon and West Babylon that go to Babylon schools..but that's not the same thing.
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