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Well, the title pretty much says it all. My question is, is there anything we can do to fix it? Is anyone else tired of it? I'm pretty fed up and frustrated with the situation. I often wonder why more people aren't discussing this issue.
I have lived on Long Island my entire life. Grew up in Ronkonkoma, in the Sachem School District, in an extremely small house. Also grew up watching my parents work extremely hard just to struggle to pay the bills. They are in their late 50's now and struggle a little bit less now that most of us kids are married and out of the house. One thing is certain, they will never have a cush retirement like many of those who work in the public sector out here.
Now I have a wife, and we have kids of our own. We're both college educated with decent jobs. My wife doesn't work as much now due to needing her to care for the kids. So, I work my butt off. Currently we rent an apartment from my in-laws. Thank God for that, as they give us a discount on the rent. We'd like to buy a house, but it just seems so out-of-reach for us. Even with having a lot of money saved. I just find it amazing how expensive it is to live here. It's not even the cost of houses. The TAXES ruin everything! And I see multiple issues with this.
I've been looking for a DECENT house, in a DECENT school district, for quite some time. I sort of gave up, but I'll take a look now and then just in case a deal pops up. Well, that doesn't really happen.
What issues I'm seeing...
1 - I'm seeing houses where the price vs the taxes just does not add up. I saw a house in Selden or Centereach the other day, the house was listed at $150,000 (WOW! what a steal right?) but the taxes were $15,000 per year (WTF?! How does this make any sense?!). The house needed a ton of work, but fixing it up would be feasible if the taxes were reasonable!
2 - I'm seeing some cases where homeowners are DROPPING their asking price multiple times because their property taxes are so high nobody wants to buy the house. So, because they want to tax us to death, homeowners out there are actually losing equity and wealth because they're forced to reduce their asking price in order to sell (depending on the house of course).
3 - Houses are sitting and rotting. I see so many houses out there that have been vacant for what seems to be years. We've all heard about the "Zombie Houses." Some people just aren't touching them because by the time you factor in the cost to buy, rehab costs, and TAXES and what that will cost you overall just to live in a mediocre area, in a mediocre school district, it just isn't worth it in most cases.
4 - The tax problem is ruining many neighborhoods and families. People don't have as much money to do the things they want. Families are being broken up because many people are relocating out of state where it's way cheaper and the pay is about the same. Imagine if they corrected the issue and what that would do for the Island. It would be truly amazing. More money in people's pockets means more young people who grew up here would buy a house and stay. People would have more money available for all types of home improvement which would revitalize neighborhoods that are falling apart. People would have more money to spend locally, maybe even start their own business, helping the local economy.
I could go on, but you get the point. Sometimes my wife and I drive around asking ourselves, "How the hell do people afford to live here?" How do you afford it? What do you people do for a living where you can just drop 1k or more per month just on your property taxes, then pay your mortgage, and still have money to do things?
I go through old threads on here where people like me express their concerns and frustrations, and people out there chalk it up to them just complaining. This is a real problem for the middle class here. Maybe you don't feel it if you're a plastic surgeon living in your McMansion somewhere on the north shore. The majority of Long Islanders feel the pain.
The equation doesn't look too bad.
If you pay $150,000 cash for the house + another $50K in updates , you end up paying $1250.00 + Utilities a month to live in a house in a decent city on Long Island. That's your cost, no matter if you look at it as TAXES, Mortgage or Rent.
During my stay in Smithtown, I paid $2800.00 a month for a two bedroom apartment. In comparison to that, you seem to be getting a very good deal.
The challenge is, if you buy a house for lets say $700,000.00 with 20% on a 30 year fix, then by the time you pay off your mortgage, the tax rate will have gone so high that you will be paying the same amount every month in Taxes that you are paying now as in your mortgage. So you will NEVER get out of the loop.
Long Island is a great place to live, but it's not for everybody. So the cost is well worth it.
If LI was cheap, half of the United States would've moved there.
Yes, it all depends on what is going on in the market when you buy or when you sell. And while you can control when you take those actions, you cannot control what the market is doing when you do.
I got lucky and brought a house on LI when the market was just rebounding (1995), and sold 11 years later for triple (yes, 3x). The price on that house has yet reach that value again so far, still being about 10% off. In those 11 years, I've paid only $25K in taxes instead of $110K.
I don't think that is the case any longer. Higher paying jobs are now available in many more places. I know plenty of "locals" at my company who are in five to mid six figure jobs. And that is besides the people in IT. As local companies grow and companies migrate jobs from higher cost areas, plenty of 'locals" have a shot at very well paying jobs in an area with a much lower cost of living.
Let's just say finding anything decent for $150k in any area with a decent quality of life is a fantasy. Where you will save and save big, is in the carry costs. Nation-wide, property taxes are literally a fraction of what LIer's pay, energy costs are no where as high in most areas and generally, cost of living is much more reasonable outside of NY/NJ/CT.
The entirety of the internet says so? Well gosh darn it, it most be true. A bunch of anonymous comments made me change my mind. Thank you!
Tep went balls to the wall to try and show you the errors of your thinking. When we disagreed he didn't put up too much of an argument. Telling.
Has it dawned on you that NY was always the most expensive place to live in this country. Always. The people that couldn't hack it have been leaving since before it even was a country.
Your last statement is very debateable... NY, mostly NYC, used to be the highest paying region in the country back when Wall St. was the anchor to the local economy. Other areas were bargains compared to NY, because the job markets were both thin and low-paid. The higher compensation meant higher prices in the Metro area. Fast-forward 15-20 years and we have long lost the 'NYC compensation premium' as Wall St. is no longer the primary driver. In fact, many of the biggest employers in NYC, such as JC Penny, Goldman Sachs, Citibank, have moved much of their operations to low cost areas across the nation. This has resulted in better job markets with pay that is rising fast in areas that have lower costs of living than NY.
Costs in NYC and especially LI have spiraled upward for a myriad of reasons, none of which are good and can be attributed to the cost of union labor, transportation, corrupt politics, etc. The one thing you can't attribute the COL to is a rising local job market, though.
Uh the population is not decreasing nor is the housing market plummeting.
Yeah, check those demographics, cause the population is not 'staying the same.' LI is one of the top three outmigration regions in the US today. Sure, for everyone who leaves, there are two who replace them. But there's a problem with this equation.
As for the real estate market, check the sales east of Rt. 111 for the latest market activity. The housing market in areas that have good access to the NYC area are doing well. Otherwise is a pretty stagnant market, though there has been an uptick in W. Suffolk recently.
Your last statement is very debateable... NY, mostly NYC, used to be the highest paying region in the country back when Wall St. was the anchor to the local economy. Other areas were bargains compared to NY, because the job markets were both thin and low-paid. The higher compensation meant higher prices in the Metro area. Fast-forward 15-20 years and we have long lost the 'NYC compensation premium' as Wall St. is no longer the primary driver. In fact, many of the biggest employers in NYC, such as JC Penny, Goldman Sachs, Citibank, have moved much of their operations to low cost areas across the nation. This has resulted in better job markets with pay that is rising fast in areas that have lower costs of living than NY.
Costs in NYC and especially LI have spiraled upward for a myriad of reasons, none of which are good and can be attributed to the cost of union labor, transportation, corrupt politics, etc. The one thing you can't attribute the COL to is a rising local job market, though.
Forget Wall Street. How does a blue collar worker make out when he leaves NYC metro? Have you seen salaries in right to work states?
Yeah, check those demographics, cause the population is not 'staying the same.' LI is one of the top three outmigration regions in the US today. Sure, for everyone who leaves, there are two who replace them. But there's a problem with this equation.
As for the real estate market, check the sales east of Rt. 111 for the latest market activity. The housing market in areas that have good access to the NYC area are doing well. Otherwise is a pretty stagnant market, though there has been an uptick in W. Suffolk recently.
Check the demographics of the US because those aren't staying the same either. What's your point? Bottom line is the population isn't decreasing. Thats a fact.
Costs in NYC and especially LI have spiraled upward for a myriad of reasons, none of which are good and can be attributed to the cost of union labor, transportation, corrupt politics, etc. The one thing you can't attribute the COL to is a rising local job market, though.
Ex, you missed an important point about hacking it. Those who stick around to pay bloated public sector salaries and benefits are life's winners. Those who put their families first and leave for a lower COL and a better life couldn't hack it and these are life's losers. It's all been laid out for us, so just pay and pay because that makes you a winner.
Eventually, the math will catch up with this place and there will be a correction. Salaries versus taxes and over all cost of living doesn't match up, making these salaries and benefits unsustainable. It's just simple math.
Last edited by manekeniko; 01-17-2017 at 03:29 PM..
Check the demographics of the US because those aren't staying the same either. What's your point? Bottom line is the population isn't decreasing. Thats a fact.
It it is increasing at a MUCH lower rate than the rest of the US. Good in some ways, not so good in others (like congressional representation).
LI, Brooklyn, Queens population in 1970 - 7.1M
Same population today - 7.8M
US population in 1970 - 205M
US population today - 318M
The equation doesn't look too bad.
If you pay $150,000 cash for the house + another $50K in updates , you end up paying $1250.00 + Utilities a month to live in a house in a decent city on Long Island. That's your cost, no matter if you look at it as TAXES, Mortgage or Rent.
During my stay in Smithtown, I paid $2800.00 a month for a two bedroom apartment. In comparison to that, you seem to be getting a very good deal.
The challenge is, if you buy a house for lets say $700,000.00 with 20% on a 30 year fix, then by the time you pay off your mortgage, the tax rate will have gone so high that you will be paying the same amount every month in Taxes that you are paying now as in your mortgage. So you will NEVER get out of the loop.
Long Island is a great place to live, but it's not for everybody. So the cost is well worth it.
If LI was cheap, half of the United States would've moved there.
I have to disagree. Those numbers are horrible when you consider the fact that you would have to pay $200k in cash right off the bat just to get your payment to a reasonable $1250, which is pure tax on an extremely tiny home, in an average at best neighborhood. That's including the $50k in repairs/updates to bring the home to a livable condition.
Most people don't have $200k sitting in their back account. Moreover, I'm not sure blowing that much liquid cash on an old bungalow in Selden would be a wise decision. Long Island was a great place to live many years ago. For some it still is, but you have to make a lot of money. I speak to too many people who want out, and many people who have left already because of these issues.
There is no justification for the high taxes and I've heard this argument before. Because a place is desirable (close to beaches and the city, etc), that justifies the exorbitant property taxes? That makes it worth it? I don't think so. This goes back to one of the problems I mentioned in my original post. If a place is desirable, demand goes up, which raises home prices, thereby increasing the wealth of homeowners (not the local gov't). When a dumpy house costs $150k, and the property taxes cost $15k, who wins? The homeowner certainly doesn't.
If exclusivity is your concern, high taxes shouldn't be the tool used to push people and businesses out. In a sane municipality, taxes would be levied fairly and local real estate markets would be the deciding factor in who lives where based on the price of houses in that area, not the tax bill. You can go to really exclusive/wealthy neighborhoods out east and find multi-million dollar homes with taxes lower than the home in Selden I mentioned. Who wins? The homeowner in this case. Does that mean everyone is going to move to that area because the taxes are reasonable? No, because not everyone can afford a home that costs a few million dollars.
/\ did you plan on having children before you settled down and purchased property? Can you show a link for that 150k house in Selden with the 15k taxes.
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