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Virginia has no teachers' unions. A world of difference for the taxpayers.
That's nonsense. The economy they have there is why there is a world of difference for the taxpayers.
Beyond that Teachers in VA are union in every sense aside from having collective bargaining rights. They still have contractual obligations / entitlements, tenure, and grievances.
Virgina salaries aren't that much lower than those in LI, nor are their benefits that much more "out of control" they simply have less retiree's collecting at this point- and even in LI the school taxes vary HUGELY, because of commercial tax input.
NYC salaries are 25% lower, but taxes over 50% lower than Nassau/Suffolk.
You can pay teachers less, or try to cap your taxes as they are now, but it's small patches in a sinking ship, something else on the LI economy would have to give to fix 'the problem at hand'.
Your own post proves my point. YOU are complaining about $80K a year for coworkers and over $100K a year for bosses ... yet you defend teacher and administrator compensation on LI? If you think what state workers earn is BAD, then how in the world can you defend LI's school district compensation with a straight face? Maybe you are just messing with us.
The figures you are complaining about are NOWHERE NEAR THE SAME LEAGUE of egregiousness as what is going on in LI's school districts.
For LI's school districts "co-workers" (rank and file teachers, including gym teachers and kindergarten teachers) can be making $150K ... or around TWICE the $80K you are complaining about state workers -- for a short work year of 180 days. And the "bosses" (superintendants and administrators) can be making over $200K to $500K a year ... a range of at the very least TWICE the $100K you are complaining about state bosses earning and up to FIVE TIMES the $100K you are complaining about state bosses earning.
In NY the private sector makes more than NYS government workers for every job category there is. LOL. Why do you think they ALWAYS have openings for computer programmers and software developers? That $33K or $36K does not go very far, and if you live in an expensive part of NY, the "downstate salary differential" of something like a measly $1200 a year is NOTHING compared to what it actually costs to live. Why do you think NYS is ALWAYS looking for medical professionals? Because what they pay is LAUGHABLE compared to what a medical professional can get in the private sector. And on and on with other professions.
$80,000K-$100,000K+ is A LOT of money for a state worker. You don’t seem to be aware that NYS workers make 21% more money than the national average for state workers, and the number of state workers making $100,000K+ has increased exponentially since 2000. The head administrator of the SUNY Albany College of Nanoscience made a $700,000K+ annual salary..more than 3x an LI school administrator salary. Remember, you’re paying for all of this in your taxes.
Yes, state worker salaries are lower than LI teacher salaries but the COL is dirt cheap in upstate NY, excluding property taxes. You can easily live comfortably in most parts of upstate NY with a COMBINED income of $60,000 - 70,000K. Therefore, there is no reason that state workers in Albany should make $80,000K+.
NYS worker salaries are generally a lot higher than private sector salaries in upstate NY. The Albany locals don’t complain about state worker salaries being high for nothing. I got offered $20,000K more as an epidemiologist for the state than at a local private sector company. Physician jobs are far few and in between at the NYSDOH, and they only hire primary care physicians. Higher salary or not, there will always be more opportunity for doctors in the private medical field. As for IT jobs, yes the state salaries are low. IT is an ironic field because it’s growing but a lot (notice I didn’t say ALL) of the jobs, both public and private don’t pay very well, at least in NYS..unless maybe Wall St? If you want to make big bucks in the IT industry than you should be looking in San Jose, but that is another thread topic.
Basically none of the private sector companies pay as high as the state jobs in upstate NY Albany region, with the exception of some positions at GE, if you're a CPA at the local PwC firm, or if you work at Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory – which is a federal government contracted company. Compare NYS jobs to LI private sector job salaries, well you really can’t because LI has hardly any industry.
I don’t care about teachers, their salaries, not related to one on LI, etc. But I don’t find 100,000K salary for an EXPIERNCED LI teacher outrageous because the COL is RIDICULOUSLY HIGH ON LI and OUT OF CONTROL..everything is more expensive on LI from real estate, property and sales taxes, insurance, utilities, gas, and groceries. At least in San Diego our utilities are cheap, our property taxes are closer to average, my car insurance is lower, and fresh produce costs less than LI. I’m not saying San Diego has a cheap COL, but the thing that always struck about LI COL is that EVERYTHING is more expensive than average. For example, San Diego and NoVA have high real estate prices but at least you have catch a break by having several other expenses priced lower such as overall property tax (minus school tax) and utilities like I mentioned.
What I’m really trying to say is that even if you do reduce teacher salaries and remove pensions which bring down the school tax, that doesn’t solve the high property tax problem. One of the posters said that if you remove LI school tax the property tax rate is similar to Vermont. That is not an improvement in tax costs because Vermont has some of the highest taxes in the country. You fail to acknowledge that property taxes are ridiculously high in LI and all of NYS compared to the national average, regardless of school tax. If you argue elsewise then you’re just delusional, everyone knows NYS has out control property taxes, with or without school tax. If you want to reduce taxes you have to look at the whole picture, it’s not going fix the entire problem by only reducing school tax.
Virginia also has mostly county wide school district as opposed to village, hamlet, zip code, etc. NYS is known for their “quilt-work patch” school districts in a region. Haven’t you ever thought of consolidating LI school districts as a way to reduce school tax? It would get rid of the dozens of overpaid school administrators on LI. I agree that LI school administrators are overpaid making $200K+..but experienced teachers making $120K, beginner teachers starting at $60K, average teacher salary ~$85K – nah, not for the absurd high COL on LI. I also agree that pensions need to go, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that is phased out soon because the state doesn’t give pensions to new workers anymore.
I agree with Winth, lack of industry on LI + outrageous NYS property tax rates + not consolidating school districts = recipe for high rate school taxes
Last edited by IceandFire; 10-11-2012 at 04:20 PM..
That's nonsense. The economy they have there is why there is a world of difference for the taxpayers.
Beyond that Teachers in VA are union in every sense aside from having collective bargaining rights. They still have contractual obligations / entitlements, tenure, and grievances.
Virgina salaries aren't that much lower than those in LI, nor are their benefits that much more "out of control" they simply have less retiree's collecting at this point- and even in LI the school taxes vary HUGELY, because of commercial tax input.
NYC salaries are 25% lower, but taxes over 50% lower than Nassau/Suffolk.
You can pay teachers less, or try to cap your taxes as they are now, but it's small patches in a sinking ship, something else on the LI economy would have to give to fix 'the problem at hand'.
Are you saying they HAVE unions?
Or are you saying they don't HAVE unions?
If they had collective bargaining rights the costs for them would be out of control just like on LI. Don't believe me? Just look at the other places with teachers' unions that are out of control, INCLUDING places with worse economies than on LI.
$80,000K-$100,000K+ is A LOT of money for a state worker. You don’t seem to be aware that NYS workers make 21% more money than the national average for state workers, and the number of state workers making $100,000K+ has increased exponentially since 2000. The head administrator of the SUNY Albany College of Nanoscience made a $700,000K+ annual salary..more than 3x an LI school administrator salary. Remember, you’re paying for all of this in your taxes.
Yes, state worker salaries are lower than LI teacher salaries but the COL is dirt cheap in upstate NY, excluding property taxes. You can easily live comfortably in most parts of upstate NY with a COMBINED income of $60,000 - 70,000K. Therefore, there is no reason that state workers in Albany should make $80,000K+.
NYS worker salaries are generally a lot higher than private sector salaries in upstate NY. The Albany locals don’t complain about state worker salaries being high for nothing. I got offered $20,000K more as an epidemiologist for the state than at a local private sector company. Physician jobs are far few and in between at the NYSDOH, and they only hire primary care physicians. Higher salary or not, there will always be more opportunity for doctors in the private medical field. As for IT jobs, yes the state salaries are low. IT is an ironic field because it’s growing but a lot (notice I didn’t say ALL) of the jobs, both public and private don’t pay very well, at least in NYS..unless maybe Wall St? If you want to make big bucks in the IT industry than you should be looking in San Jose, but that is another thread topic.
Basically none of the private sector companies pay as high as the state jobs in upstate NY Albany region, with the exception of some positions at GE, if you're a CPA at the local PwC firm, or if you work at Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory – which is a federal government contracted company. Compare NYS jobs to LI private sector job salaries, well you really can’t because LI has hardly any industry.
I don’t care about teachers, their salaries, not related to one on LI, etc. But I don’t find 100,000K salary for an EXPIERNCED LI teacher outrageous because the COL is RIDICULOUSLY HIGH ON LI and OUT OF CONTROL..everything is more expensive on LI from real estate, property and sales taxes, insurance, utilities, gas, and groceries. At least in San Diego our utilities are cheap, our property taxes are closer to average, my car insurance is lower, and fresh produce costs less than LI. I’m not saying San Diego has a cheap COL, but the thing that always struck about LI COL is that EVERYTHING is more expensive than average. For example, San Diego and NoVA have high real estate prices but at least you have catch a break by having several other expenses priced lower such as overall property tax (minus school tax) and utilities like I mentioned.
What I’m really trying to say is that even if you do reduce teacher salaries and remove pensions which bring down the school tax, that doesn’t solve the high property tax problem. One of the posters said that if you remove LI school tax the property tax rate is similar to Vermont. That is not an improvement in tax costs because Vermont has some of the highest taxes in the country. You fail to acknowledge that property taxes are ridiculously high in LI and all of NYS compared to the national average, regardless of school tax. If you argue elsewise then you’re just delusional, everyone knows NYS has out control property taxes, with or without school tax. If you want to reduce taxes you have to look at the whole picture, it’s not going fix the entire problem by only reducing school tax.
Virginia also has mostly county wide school district as opposed to village, hamlet, zip code, etc. NYS is known for their “quilt-work patch” school districts in a region. Haven’t you ever thought of consolidating LI school districts as a way to reduce school tax? It would get rid of the dozens of overpaid school administrators on LI. I agree that LI school administrators are overpaid making $200K+..but experienced teachers making $120K, beginner teachers starting at $60K, average teacher salary ~$85K – nah, not for the absurd high COL on LI. I also agree that pensions need to go, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that is phased out soon because the state doesn’t give pensions to new workers anymore.
I agree with Winth, lack of industry on LI + outrageous NYS property tax rates + not consolidating school districts = recipe for high rate school taxes
They make 21% more than other STATE workers. If they made 21% more than private sector workers in NYS do then I'd REALLY be pissed.
Wanna take a guess what school supers, admins, and teachers on LI make MORE than their counterparts in other states? Way above 21%. LOL. Even compared to NYC's top spot in schools (that SHOULD be higher paid), which oversees a huge district, LI's supers are raking in an outrageous amount for much smaller districts. LI's public school teacher compensation as compared to teacher compensation right here in LI's private schools is outrageous. Compared to some places in other states? OMG!
All this talk of "state workers make good money for upstate NY" has nothing to do with where I'm at, which is LI, where state worker pay is mediocre. Maybe that's why I'm not as aware of the problem you see. TY for telling me. I guess you are retired and raking in your pension now or you wouldn't bring it up and potentially upset your gravy train from NYS!
I would love to pay property taxes minus school taxes. I don't consider them out of control. It's the school taxes on LI that make things out of control and they are getting worse.
As for consolidating school districts and saving money, did you read my previous post about the plan to combine the three SDs in Valley Stream and the person who designed the plan didn't want to get rid of any of the supers or admins or other hangers on? But get rid of some teachers and secretaries of course for "savings." It's so crooked even if they combined the school districts, these people would find a way to hang on in the payroll. Also, these are the top people in every school district ... of course they won't do anything to combine and risk their own jobs. The County Executives have no control over school districts. They are all their own little independent fiefdoms. We need to have some central oversight that has the power to do something first, either county or state, before we can combine without every super throwing roadblocks at us. And they will throw them to keep on the gravy train. I can just see them fear and hate mongering in many of the districts ... "Your kids will have to go to school with brown people if you combine the districts ... ooohhhh ... your kids will die!" Yes, I wouldn't put it past them to fight dirty.
That's nonsense. The economy they have there is why there is a world of difference for the taxpayers.
Beyond that Teachers in VA are union in every sense aside from having collective bargaining rights. They still have contractual obligations / entitlements, tenure, and grievances.
Virgina salaries aren't that much lower than those in LI, nor are their benefits that much more "out of control" they simply have less retiree's collecting at this point- and even in LI the school taxes vary HUGELY, because of commercial tax input.
NYC salaries are 25% lower, but taxes over 50% lower than Nassau/Suffolk.
You can pay teachers less, or try to cap your taxes as they are now, but it's small patches in a sinking ship, something else on the LI economy would have to give to fix 'the problem at hand'.
Good point (in your bold print). If all the teachers in my district magically took a 10K cut in pay next year (after two consecutive real freeze years and 30% of medical FYI) we would save 4M in an 80M budget. How much would my property taxes go down (assuming other district expenses and the local gov't portion of my taxes increase at the normal rate)? And what about the next year if we gave those same teachers a COLA raise (after 2 years of freezes and one year of a 10K cut)? My point is that even a magical 10K cut in teacher pay will not give the property tax savings some folks dream it will be! And magical 10K cuts just ain't happening in any case.
I guess you are retired and raking in your pension now or you wouldn't bring it up and potentially upset your gravy train from NYS!
You lost all your credibility there making stupid assumptions. No I'm not retired. I used to work for NY as an epidemiologist but I sick of cold, gray weather and moved to San Diego where I landed a higher paying private sector job for a pharmacological research company. So now you can say I'm the reason why health insurance is so high. Yes, I am a hypocrite but I am still disgusted how much our CEOs are making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
I would love to pay property taxes minus school taxes. I don't consider them out of control. It's the school taxes on LI that make things out of control and they are getting worse.
Wow, just wow. That has got to be the most bizarre statement I ever heard from a NYer. Everyone knows NYS has some of the highest property taxes in the country. NY is constantly ranked one of the worst states for business partially because of property taxes. So much business has been lost or outsourced to southern states because NY has such high property taxes. Most of California has lower property taxes than NY.
Last edited by IceandFire; 10-11-2012 at 07:02 PM..
I don't often like to quote Bill Maher, but he said something interesting on this topic. He said we used to look at union workers and say "I want what they have." Now we look at them and say "I don't have that, they shouldn't either". What changed?
I don't often like to quote Bill Maher, but he said something interesting on this topic. He said we used to look at union workers and say "I want what they have." Now we look at them and say "I don't have that, they shouldn't either". What changed?
Before they used to have less wages, but better security and perks. Now they have better wages, better perks, and near untouchable security. Until everyone moves from their district, their enrollment goes down, and people get canned because they aren't needed.
I don't often like to quote Bill Maher, but he said something interesting on this topic. He said we used to look at union workers and say "I want what they have." Now we look at them and say "I don't have that, they shouldn't either". What changed?
The tax bill.
Quoting Bill Maher...talk about a loss of credibility.
Status:
"Let this year be over..."
(set 22 days ago)
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,219 posts, read 17,091,524 times
Reputation: 15538
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
Virginia has no teachers' unions. A world of difference for the taxpayers.
So true and we our property tax rate is $8.70 per 1k assessed (thats everything)....
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