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I know that you have not represented any of the people in this thread before dispensing your canned speech to bilk the system. Beyond that, I care very little about the little bit of business you do.I have conceded on several occasions that when it came to bilking the system, that you were the go to man. I make no apologies for not having the expertise you claim to have in bilking the system. I say claim to have, because while admonishing me for not knowing that key money is unavailable to homeowners, you advised two homeowners in this same thread to seek key money. You seem a little confused. I mean more so than usual.And only a scheister would try and cloak their canned advice to bilk the system as an agent-client obligation, when nothing close to such exists. At least geos is up front and straight about it; bilk and screw the system for all it's worth. Why not man up like geos and admit that your intent too, is to bilk and screw the system for all its worth?
It must be nice to be a fundamentalist. Ignore facts, truth, good sense...
It must be nice to be a fundamentalist. Ignore facts, truth, good sense...
I'd say it must be nice to be a scheister, but I somehow doubt that's true.
You claim GailMI is under great financial pressure. That's critical for you to rationalize your advice to bilk the system. In fact, GailMI says her current mortgage payment and HOA fees are equivalent to rent, and due to go down. GailMI originally stated she intended to stay. There is no financial duress, yet she received the same canned speech to maximize her free ride and ask for key money.
Now, who is ignoring the facts and truth?
Last edited by tony soprano; 09-26-2009 at 11:22 PM..
Prince... stop looking at the value and start thinking about the cash flow..
Are you paying less then rent? Could you rent the property out for more then your mortgage?
If yes and yes... you have a positive cash flow and that's what matters...
Rookies think of appreciation / depreciation / values... Professional Real Estate investors think about cash flow.
Precisely why the market ended up the way it did... too many Rookies thinking that appreciation rates are always 10% + .... Too many rookies taking the advice of Licensed Real Estate "Professionals" who have no clue what a positive cash flow is in the first place...
Stop sweating over it unless your mortgage payment is far more then what the rental market would bear...
Prince... stop looking at the value and start thinking about the cash flow..
Are you paying less then rent? Could you rent the property out for more then your mortgage?
If yes and yes... you have a positive cash flow and that's what matters...
Rookies think of appreciation / depreciation / values... Professional Real Estate investors think about cash flow.
Precisely why the market ended up the way it did... too many Rookies thinking that appreciation rates are always 10% + .... Too many rookies taking the advice of Licensed Real Estate "Professionals" who have no clue what a positive cash flow is in the first place...
Stop sweating over it unless your mortgage payment is far more then what the rental market would bear...
Actually that's the way I have been looking at it. However, the answer to your questions have, over the most recent several months turned into: 1) no; and 2) definitely not. I can rent for about 20%+ less than my total cost to live here at a lovely complex right down the street. Meanwhile, units here are on the rental market for 35% less than what I pay and even 15% less than the apartment complex. That might not seem like a lot to you, but, at my income level, to be paying 20% more for a LESS desirable home, in what is rapidly becoming less and less desirable--basically a big apartment complex with no management or oversight whatsover-- it doesn't paint a pretty picture. Surely, the condo sales office KNEW, when I purchased my condo that they were on the verge of closing down, pulling out, and giving up any attempt to sell units. They never let me in on that secret. (note that while I ended up buying a repo unit, I had also negotiated extensively with the sales office for a new unit). THREE WEEKS after I moved in, I stopped by the sales office, and they had left and turned it over to leasing agents.
Also, as for your comment about 10% appreciation--I knew better than that. In fact, throughout this mess, I have kept the thought that as long as I would be EVEN or CLOSE TO EVEN after 10 years, I would feel fairly secure. Unfortunately, according to current value and amoritization tables, I will still be severely upside down after 10 years, and still upside down even after 15 years. I can't afford that. And I can't mentally take that hanging over my head for the rest of my life. I fall asleep thinking about it, I wake up worrying about, every time there's another incident of vandalism in my complex, I feel panicky, etc. etc. Everytime I see rental units going on the market for lower and lower rates, I worry.
Yes, I made a mistake. Yes, I was naive. But was I mislead on my way to the mistake? I believe I was. I was mislead by the condo sales office, I wasmislead by SOMEBODY (my realtor or the selling realtor) when before made my offer I was told there were already "several" offers on the place, which seemed to suddenly disappear at the end of negotations. I also believe that those who had the greatest insight into what was going to happen (the banks) are the ones who will take the biggest "loss" But, if you look at the loss as a percentage of worth, and the net effect on well-being, then I am still the biggest loser here. Yes, I'm taking what feels like a creepy way to get out of this, but no, I'm not willing to sacrifice my well being for what amounts to the rest of my life in order to do my small part to a) keep the long-suffering bank industry afloat; or b) satisfy the moral leanings of my critics. My object is not to get a free ride. My object is just to get out from under this mess.
P.S. Tony Soprano--I've already heard your opinion. I was replying to this particular post.
Gail indicated no financial duress whatsoever before you delivered your advice to bilk the system. Her concern was the possibility of being underwater 10-15 years down the road. She discloses her monthly expenses would be the same if she was to rent. She also expected her current payment would be going lower when her property taxes were adjusted. Where's the duress? There is none. In fact, her original intent as stated was to stay, until receiving your canned speech to bilk the system. It doesn't matter if they're your clients or not, if they're under financial duress or not, your advice to bilk remains the same. And why shouldn't it, that's your intent.I highly doubt I'm going to learn anything in an ethics course about maximizing the time I can freeload and committing extortion. Unless of course the curriculum was developed by used car salesmen, defense attorneys, and a certain Vegas realtor.
Tony, as much as I hate to converse with you, I'm afraid you are wrong here. Yes, I did indicate my monthly expense (mortage + HOA) was PROBABLY the same as rent. However, that was my "bury my head in the sand" outlook. Olecapt's advice was correct. For one thing, cost of home ownership involves more than mortgage+HOA. For another thing, there is the big picture to look at. His point that I don't have "time" to weather the loss IS CORRECT. I don't know what you have against this guy, but you're wrong. period. Also, I'm a little tired of you mocking the "10 or 15 years down the road" issue. That is AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. How would you like to have to face foreclosure at the age of 74 because you didn't deal with the issue 15 years previously? Surprise fact, Tony: people have to worry about their futures, and the future is a lot closer the older you get. Plus there's a lot less OF it, so you can't afford to squander it. There is only one rationalization for your contempt: you feel people should have to pay for their mistakes. You don't apparently feel that banks should have to pay for their mistakes. (e.g., I made a bad loan, I should have to pay--they took on a bad risk, they shouldn't have to pay. So, that's how you feel. I get how you feel. I just disagree.
Tony, as much as I hate to converse with you, I'm afraid you are wrong here. Yes, I did indicate my monthly expense (mortage + HOA) was PROBABLY the same as rent. However, that was my "bury my head in the sand" outlook. Olecapt's advice was correct. For one thing, cost of home ownership involves more than mortgage+HOA. For another thing, there is the big picture to look at. His point that I don't have "time" to weather the loss IS CORRECT. I don't know what you have against this guy, but you're wrong. period. Also, I'm a little tired of you mocking the "10 or 15 years down the road" issue. That is AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. How would you like to have to face foreclosure at the age of 74 because you didn't deal with the issue 15 years previously? Surprise fact, Tony: people have to worry about their futures, and the future is a lot closer the older you get. Plus there's a lot less OF it, so you can't afford to squander it. There is only one rationalization for your contempt: you feel people should have to pay for their mistakes. You don't apparently feel that banks should have to pay for their mistakes. (e.g., I made a bad loan, I should have to pay--they took on a bad risk, they shouldn't have to pay. So, that's how you feel. I get how you feel. I just disagree.
If you don't wish to converse with me, don't. No one is twisting your arm to converse with me, just like no one twisted your arm to take out a mortgage. Let's be clear; the bank made you a perfectly fine loan. Presumably, it was at a decent rate, or you wouldn't have accepted the terms. The loan provided the funds to procure your condo. The loan itself was fine. Your walking away from it is what makes it a bad loan. As for paying for your mistake, who else should pay? Me? The bank that offered you the loan? Taxpayers? What a novel concept to be accountable for your own mistakes instead of trying to make someone else pay for them.
You posted the following just 16 days ago -
Quote:
Originally Posted by GailMI
My mortgage payment is actually $893 right now plus $158 in HOA fees. I figure I'd pay that much in rent, so AS I SAID, I am staying. Plus my payment should go down a little when they adjust for lowering property tax.
Now, 16 days later you can rent for 20% less and you're leaving. Whatever. More importantly, you received your canned speech to bilk the system less than 30 minutes after posting the above. His advice to bilk the system is independent of whether your mortgage is less or more than equivalent rent. The circumstances don't matter because the goal is to bilk the system for all its worth.
BTW, you're missing the point of the "10-15 years down the road" issue. You're choosing to walk away from your mortgage because of the prospects of being foreclosed 10-15 years from now, not any immediate financial duress. You are what the media have coined the "strategic defaulter". You have the ability to pay your mortgage but you're making the conscious choice not to. Contrast that against the tens of thousands of people who have no other alternative but default. I think I've been pretty clear what I have a problem with - more than the choice to walk away, is then taking advantage of the system to live rent free for as long as possible, and asking for money to hand the keys over. You say that's not your intent? Good for you.
If you don't wish to converse with me, don't. No one is twisting your arm to converse with me, just like no one twisted your arm to take out a mortgage. Let's be clear; the bank made you a perfectly fine loan. Presumably, it was at a decent rate, or you wouldn't have accepted the terms. The loan provided the funds to procure your condo. The loan itself was fine. Your walking away from it is what makes it a bad loan. As for paying for your mistake, who else should pay? Me? The bank that offered you the loan? Taxpayers? What a novel concept to be accountable for your own mistakes instead of trying to make someone else pay for them.
You posted the following just 16 days ago -Now, 16 days later you can rent for 20% less and you're leaving. Whatever. More importantly, you received your canned speech to bilk the system less than 30 minutes after posting the above. His advice to bilk the system is independent of whether your mortgage is less or more than equivalent rent. The circumstances don't matter because the goal is to bilk the system for all its worth.
BTW, you're missing the point of the "10-15 years down the road" issue. You're choosing to walk away from your mortgage because of the prospects of being foreclosed 10-15 years from now, not any immediate financial duress. You are what the media have coined the "strategic defaulter". You have the ability to pay your mortgage but you're making the conscious choice not to. Contrast that against the tens of thousands of people who have no other alternative but default. I think I've been pretty clear what I have a problem with - more than the choice to walk away, is then taking advantage of the system to live rent free for as long as possible, and asking for money to hand the keys over. You say that's not your intent? Good for you.
More garbage and another misused term. You simply don't understand what a strategic defaulter is. Get a little educaton before you use terms.
Don't waste your breath Gail. Tony is a true believer. Only they know where truth lies.
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