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So I have a question. I could call the 3 or 4 metro guys I know but I do not want to bother them if I don't have to. In almost getting hit on the way into work today with someone in my blindspot (on the shoulder) during a right turn, it got me to thinking a bit. Below I have 4 pics of street situations and am curious the outcome out each. I know what everyone does, but I am curious what is LEGAL.
For thoes that are curious, I almost got hit in the #1 situation on the way to work this morning.
The thumbnails are referenced left to right. I will give a street location in town where the actual sketch is susposed to be.
This is a lot of situations, but here I am illistrating boulder highway and Nellis, going northwest bound on BH. (Just south of Sams Town). Here the normal "shoulder" on BH opens up to a right turn only lane.
My question is: Is it legal to drive through the "shoulder" part of the lane before the right turn lane offically opens?
I think the answer is: NO, you must wait until the lane opens.
This is a lot of streets but lets say it's BH for most of the drive into Henderson. It can also be Russell westbound coming up to stephanie.
My question is: Is it legal to drive into the right most lane (in this situation it is clearly a shoulder becuase of the solid right line or are you LEGALLY required to turn right out of the the middle lane? (I use the word middle here loosly becuase everyone treats the shoulder as the right lane).
I think the answer is: No. You must actually turn from the lane that is NOT the shoulder.
This is also a few streets. Lets say it's Mt Vista (southbound) before Ramrod. There is a light at the intersection and Mt Vista opens from 2 to 3 lanes after the intersection.
My question is: Who has priority to the opening right lane. I realize that the cross street driver MUST yeild to all oncoming traffic but if the driver on the main street was to actually move from the middle lane to the right lane in the middle of the intersection they would be preforming an illegal lane change (in the middle of the intersection)?
I think the answer is: Becuase you always must yeild before entering another street the main street has presedence to take the lane. That said, no car from the main street should technically be able to move to the right lane in the middle of the intersection.
This is a lot of streets in the Green Valley/Henderson area, lets say Warm Springs and Valle Verde. A lot of streets have bike lanes to the right of a 2 lane road. Up and down the streets are also signs to remind drivers that the "Diamond lane" is for Bikes only.
My question is: Same as the others. What lane do you turn from? Do you move across the bike lane into the shoulder to make the turn? (Note this is not a situation where there is a dedicated and clearly marked right turn only lane to the right of the "diamond lane")
I think the answer is: Since there are clear white (thus legally binding) signs saying the "diamond lane" is for bikes only you must turn from the lane to the left of the bike lane.
I realize that all these answers are contrary to what everyone does. But I almost got hit this morning for not going into the right turn lane BEFORE IT OPENED (Example 1).
Sorry for the poor paint pictures also - I just wanted to get them together quickly.
I also want to clarify something. I am under the impression that if you turn left you must then turn into the leftmost lane. This if we are at a cross street and I am turning right and you are turning left, we can both turn. I would turn right into the right most lane and you would turn left into the left most lane (assuming there is more than one lane). In CA if you are turning left you can take any lane but that is not the case here correct?
i believe in nevada there is no law pertaining to turning left, i believe when you can turn left you can end up in any lane of your choice, unless it is 2 left lanes, in that case it would only be safe to switch lanes if there was no one in the other lane...
1 & 2, I don't know what the Nevada Revised Statutes say, but what you refer to as the shoulder has always been considered a right turn lane, as well as the parking lane. I have been in a similar situation where a truck in the "left" (or center) lane turned right and hit me. He was cited for making an illegal right turn from the wrong lane. (BTW: I actually recall someone asking me if that lane was the parking lane or the right turn lane way back in 1964 when I first arrived. The consensus was it is both).
In 3, since you aren't supposed to make a lane change within, I believe it is 200 feet, of an intersection, then you can't take the far right lane until you have gone at least that far through the intersection. That leaves the far right lane open for those turning right from the side street. I doubt you will find 1 in 100 that knows and obeys that law. These people don't even know that you aren't supposed to cross a solid white line, so since the solid lines from the on ramps to the freeways are too long anyway, don't count on people not cutting you off when you try to follow the law and not merge until the broken white lines.
As far as #4, we're all still waiting for the state to advise us. I've been wondering that myself ever since they put in bike lanes during the administration our bicycling former mayor, Ron Laurie. If you don't use the bike lane as a right turn lane, someone who didn't get the memo is going to clip you on the right side. If you do use it, some guy on a bike is going to dent your door, or some cop is going to see you and give you a ticket...maybe. Nobody actually knows what the law is in that situation.
i believe in nevada there is no law pertaining to turning left, i believe when you can turn left you can end up in any lane of your choice, unless it is 2 left lanes, in that case it would only be safe to switch lanes if there was no one in the other lane...
Of course there is a law about who has the right of way in a left turn. If you are turning left, the guy turning right has the right-of-way unless there is a left turn light and he has the stop light. But in the case of multiple lanes, I believe that you are supposed to stay in your lane except nobody does. Maybe we can research it on line. NRS is available on the state website, and maybe the driver's manual is available from the DMV but it might not be in there.
1 & 2, I don't know what the Nevada Revised Statutes say, but what you refer to as the shoulder has always been considered a right turn lane, as well as the parking lane. I have been in a similar situation where a truck in the "left" (or center) lane turned right and hit me. He was cited for making an illegal right turn from the wrong lane. (BTW: I actually recall someone asking me if that lane was the parking lane or the right turn lane way back in 1964 when I first arrived. The consensus was it is both).
Quick retort on that before bed is that on BH it is clearly marked that the right should has no parking signs. I checked on the way home today. So if it has no parking it is clearly no parking (some places it does permit parking), however between Flamingo and Trop it clearly does not.
It really bothered me today that I almost it someone in my left rear quarter panel becuase they were passing me (even though I had my right turn signal on) becuase they went into the right turn lane before it opened.
I will research my last comment tommorow more. I know if it is a protect vs. unprotect turn who clearly has a right the right of way, but I am curious what lane one MUST turn into. I think I remember from traffic school (when I was 15.5 about 12 years ago) that you have to turn into the right or left most lane (or 2nd/3rd from the left if you are in multiple turn lanes).
[[quote]Solid white lines are used in several ways. When solid white lines separate lanes of traffic moving in the same direction, do not change lanes or pass. The only exception to this is a white line separating a High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lane on a freeway. You may cross to enter or exit the HOV lane. A solid white line is also used to mark the edge of the highway as well as the boundary between a travel lane and a highway shoulder.[/quote]
[LEFT]
So it is not clear if you can turn right on the "shoulder" or not. But I would think that since it is a shoulder you can't... I dunno for sure.
Also concerning the right of way in example 3 above:
Quote:
[LEFT][SIZE=2]Vehicles entering a main road from a minor road, private road or[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]driveway must yield the right-of-way to all traffic on the main road and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]to pedestrians.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]So I would assume no matter if someone breaks the law and switches lanes in the middle of the intersection they would not be at fault if someone pulled out in front of them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lastly on the right vs left turns: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]
Quote:
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]When [/SIZE][SIZE=2]turning right[/SIZE][SIZE=2], you must be in the extreme right-hand travel[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]lane or a lane designated for right turns. If a single lane is provided[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]to be used only for turning, you may only enter the lane if you are[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]making a right turn, and may not travel through an intersection[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]while driving in the right-turn lane. Turn into the right-hand lane of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]the roadway you are entering, or the lane designated for the turn. If[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]you then need to change lanes, signal and proceed carefully to the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]next lane when you are well away from the intersection.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]When [/SIZE][SIZE=2]turning left[/SIZE][SIZE=2], keep your wheels pointed straight ahead until you[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]actually start to turn. On a 2-way road use the lane just to the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]right of the center line, and complete the turn into the traffic lane[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]closest to you going in your intended direction. Do not attempt to[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]change lanes until you can do so safely.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
Just throwing that out there for debate. This is why I will turn right into the rightmost lane even when people are turning left in front of me. [/LEFT]
[/SIZE]
Quick retort on that before bed is that on BH it is clearly marked that the right should has no parking signs. I checked on the way home today. So if it has no parking it is clearly no parking (some places it does permit parking), however between Flamingo and Trop it clearly does not.
It really bothered me today that I almost it someone in my left rear quarter panel becuase they were passing me (even though I had my right turn signal on) becuase they went into the right turn lane before it opened.
I will research my last comment tommorow more. I know if it is a protect vs. unprotect turn who clearly has a right the right of way, but I am curious what lane one MUST turn into. I think I remember from traffic school (when I was 15.5 about 12 years ago) that you have to turn into the right or left most lane (or 2nd/3rd from the left if you are in multiple turn lanes).
Obviously if it is marked no parking it means no parking, but that doesn't mean you can't travel in that lane. Usually that's why you can't park there. I haven't been down there on Boulder Highway in a while, so I don't know the exact situation. I would also like to have the official word on your questions, but I think it is one of those things that Las Vegans don't really want to know the truth about since ignorance is bliss.
BTW: Plez use ur spel chekr jist fer me. It's hard to understand some of the comments.
[[quote]Solid white lines are used in several ways. When solid white lines separate lanes of traffic moving in the same direction, do not change lanes or pass. The only exception to this is a white line separating a High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lane on a freeway. You may cross to enter or exit the HOV lane. A solid white line is also used to mark the edge of the highway as well as the boundary between a travel lane and a highway shoulder.
So it is not clear if you can turn right on the "shoulder" or not. But I would think that since it is a shoulder you can't... I dunno for sure.
Also concerning the right of way in example 3 above:
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]So I would assume no matter if someone breaks the law and switches lanes in the middle of the intersection they would not be at fault if someone pulled out in front of them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lastly on the right vs left turns: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]
Just throwing that out there for debate. This is why I will turn right into the rightmost lane even when people are turning left in front of me.
[/SIZE][/quote]
That answers a couple of the questions. I imagine it would depend on the judge for who is at fault if you change lanes in an intersection and hit someone turning into an empty right lane. It's amazing how subjective some things can be in a court room. MY policy is never to trust the other guy to do the right thing. I constantly see people making left turns and cutting across three lanes from the inside left turn lane to the outside right lane of the other road.
Can I not edit my posts the morning after? I was going to clean up the tags in the morning that copy and pasting from the DMV handbook put it. Mods do you mid cleaning up the post for me? I can PM you the post as well cleaned up if you would prefer a copy and paste.
Sorry about the spelling - it is certainly not my strong suit... add the 2 martini's from last night and it only gets worse - I start typing faster and instead of reading I just hit send.
I think the most important thing is to remember what you have put in red above as the DMV book reminds you first and foremost that everyone must AVOID an accident in NV. That said, it is hard for me to purposely do things blatantly wrong (like drive in the bike lane above, which is unsafe esp. for the bikers) or run down a shoulder where someone could suddenly stop because that is what shoulders are for, in the event of an emergency.
But sleeping on it and thinking about it - it seems clearer to me that you must turn from the right most lane into the right most lane (turning right). The shoulder IS NOT a lane. It has a different definition in the DMV book that from travel lanes.
That said, what takes precedence? Avoiding the accident or doing things purposely wrong?
[color=black][font=Verdana]
That said, what takes precedence? Avoiding the accident or doing things purposely wrong?
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that the privilege of living in a libertarian state, like Nevada, puts a burden of responsibility on the citizens, and that's the way it should. Too bad so many Americans think that the government has to control everything we do. I've always suspected that the government couldn't successfully operate a lemonade stand, and after working for government, now I know I was right.
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I've been wondering that myself ever since they put in bike lanes during the administration our bicycling former mayor, Ron Laurie. If you don't use the bike lane as a right turn lane, someone who didn't get the memo is going to clip you on the right side. If you do use it, some guy on a bike is going to dent your door, or some cop is going to see you and give you a ticket...maybe. Nobody actually knows what the law is in that situation. 
