[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by OmegaSupreme

Hyperloop isn't ready yet.....

that or some other mode of high speed transport for the commute would be the only way to make it viable imo.

In 5 to 10 years it should be or it will never be. I would think the need is more than 10 years out.

That is a big problem here. We have immediate problems but the solution is still 5 years or so off. We are an obvious an almost certainly an early implementer of the autonomous vehicle. But we still need to be cautious until it breaks open. Stall would appear the best tactic.

[Willy702]

Someday it will happen and all the low cost carriers will be in line to do it. Simple economics really as you get close to that supposed capacity the airport then can and should significantly raise fees for airlines. Airlines will complain and some will cancel routes but that is what is supposed to happen. When it does it won't be long before the lower cost carriers decide having Vegas is too important for their business and will make a deal with Ivanpah at a much lower price and pass it along. The Ryanair model in Europe basically.

As for the taxi fare, i'm pretty certain they will want to avoid backlash by setting up a set fee, sort of like in NYC where at all airports the taxi fare into the city is a certain amount and its posted all over the cab. I'm thinking if people have to pay $100 for a taxi whatever they save by flying there disappears so people will be upset. Maybe a $50 or so fare for the Strip and $60 elsewhere would be set, something like that.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Legislation was signed on October 28, 2000, allowing Clark County to purchase land for a new commercial airport.[citation needed] The county was to buy 6,500 acres (2,600 ha) of land in the Ivanpah Valley from the Bureau of Land Management, about 30 miles (48 km) southwest of McCarran International Airport for the Ivanpah Airport. The location is between the towns of Jean and Primm.
The airport had been planned to open in 2017. However the Clark County Department of Aviation announced the project was put on temporary hold as of June 2010 due to the Great Recession, until air traffic and tourism demands to Metro Las Vegas returns and increases.

McCarran had 47.4 million passengers in 2016 which means it may hit the trigger level of 49.5 million passengers in 2018 that was supposed to be the signal to start work on Ivanpah. At the very least the airport should hit that level by 2019.

What is your opinion? Keep in mind that only one successful reliever airport has been built in North America without first closing or severely limiting the old airport. That airport was Washington Dulles which lived on federal grants for 20 years until it could support itself.

Be careful mentioning this here. I was shouted down when I mention the exact same statistics only a few months ago. In the spirit of full disclosure, I moved here from the area where Dulles was built.

Personally, I think it is a great idea, and needs to happen. Central LV Valley is a terrible place for an airport, particularly considering that it is now blatantly obvious that it is terribly easy for terrorists or others who have become unhinged to shoot at the fuel tanks, planes, and who knows what else from their hotel rooms.

Its also terrible because it is in close proximity to several blocks of development around of what is now the center of Las Vegas. I took a look at Google Maps and found that there are approximately 20 blocks surrounding the airport that are likely inundated with terrible airplane noise without being accommodated with specialized building materials. I personally feel that this area can be better utilized by other purposes, including those that actually bring money into the valley, but I digress.

The stats don't lie. The airport can and will hit capacity in the next couple of years. I think the recent events may have some negative impact, but I don't expect it to be any more than those experienced by NYC or DC following 9/11. We have been exceeding projections for airport capacity already.

Since the bill already passed nearly 2 decades ago, I suspect that the county will eventually move forward with the plans, given appropriate funding. This will allow the area to continue to grow, because we will be able to install larger runways that carry more passengers. As I understand it, the master plan is to bring upwards of 5 million into the area, as this is what the local rivers/aquifers will support.

I don't expect that McCarran will fall into disuse, but will likely change its focus to carrying cargo planes for entities such as Amazon, who is looking to build a hub here. I think this will also be a boon to commerce in the valley and that we should support it, even if I personally think the land would be better used as a ground transportation hub for high speed rail, underground subway, bussing, monorail, etc.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by AmericaWestCMH

I would say the logistics and financials would make that impossible. UNLV and hundreds of businesses along Tropicana would be in the way. It would also end up as an arrival-only runway westbound and departure only eastbound due to the high-rise hotels. It would also make it impossible to run traffic in/out of 19L/R simultaneously as those arrivals/departures already scrape the boundary with Nellis AFB airspace.

Anyone who has ever sat at the McCarran viewing area off of Sunset can easily see that the largest planes we carry now just barely make if off the runway to the west side of 26L/26R. We can't carry anything larger without major changes, and the planes are only going to get bigger.

I think we can carry more of the smaller domestic cargo flights, but we need to get the passenger flights to stop monopolizing the runways. As I have seen, those flights are taking off roughly every 2 minutes and I'm not really clear that they can be run any tighter than that. It sure doesn't look like it based on basic observation.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

Can't see it. Too far away. Isn't it like a $100 cab fare from anywhere in Las Vegas?

No. Cab fares about 10 mins away run about $35.... pretty bad I think. I can get an Uber for $15 or less.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

In 5 to 10 years it should be or it will never be. I would think the need is more than 10 years out.

That is a big problem here. We have immediate problems but the solution is still 5 years or so off. We are an obvious an almost certainly an early implementer of the autonomous vehicle. But we still need to be cautious until it breaks open. Stall would appear the best tactic.

Phoenix and SF already have the jump on us, yet the company is here in Nevada. This is a major mistake on the commissioners' parts.

[AmericaWestCMH]

Originally Posted by equid0x

I think we can carry more of the smaller domestic cargo flights, but we need to get the passenger flights to stop monopolizing the runways. As I have seen, those flights are taking off roughly every 2 minutes and I'm not really clear that they can be run any tighter than that. It sure doesn't look like it based on basic observation.

LAS has hardly any cargo traffic. There are fewer than 10 flights a day and the cargo ramp is woefully underutilized. It's just not necessary when you can get from the Port of LA to Vegas in 5 hours by truck.


Passenger flights monopolize the runways? Isn't that what an airport is for? You could free up a ton of capacity at McCarran by jacking up fees for general aviation and forcing some bizjet traffic to Henderson and North Vegas.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

Is this a cut and paste from Wikipedia?

Yes, I cut and paste the background information from Wikipedia. Sorry for not acknowledging.

Originally Posted by equid0x

I don't expect that McCarran will fall into disuse, but will likely change its focus to carrying cargo planes for entities such as Amazon, who is looking to build a hub here. .

I have to admit this is the first time I've ever heard anyone speculate about McCarran being the cargo airport and Ivanpah being the passenger airport. In the midst of the recession and passenger traffic dropped by close to 20%, there was a lot of people who felt they should start on Ivanpah for cargo

Originally Posted by equid0x

The stats don't lie. The airport can and will hit capacity in the next couple of years. I think the recent events may have some negative impact, but I don't expect it to be any more than those experienced by NYC or DC following 9/11. We have been exceeding projections for airport capacity already.

Although there are discussions about building new airports all around the country and the world, they seem particularly strong regarding SAN, LAS, and LAX in the Southwestern USA.

San Diego and Las Vegas started major efforts around the same time 2000-2002. San Diego formed an Authority which was tasked with having a proposal up for vote in 2004 or 2006 at the latest. In San Diego they eliminated over 30 options, and eventually settled a vote to try and coerce the military into sharing Miramar airport (and moving two freeways). The option was voted down by a sizeable majority since citizens found it difficult to vote for a proposal that was not under civilian control.

San Diego has now survived for 11 years since the vote, and there is no prospect of replacing the single runway airport.

Originally Posted by equid0x

Since the bill already passed nearly 2 decades ago, I suspect that the county will eventually move forward with the plans, given appropriate funding.

When California state bill forming the Airport authority was passed JANUARY 11, 2001 they expected to have a new airport built by 2015.
I don't think you can automatically assume that Ivanpah Airport will ever be built. The Nevada bill authorized the county to purchase the land, a very minor purchase for a multibillion dollar project.

It is interesting to note that Las Vegas airport has very high load factors and carries more passengers on average per flight than any other airport in the country except for JFK. And JFK has an extraordinarily high number of widebodies including the A380. LAS is already far above LAX in average passengers per flight.

San Diego runway became far less crowded when the number of regional jets flying to LAX were consolidated. The airlines used to have over 25 flights daily from SAN to LAX mostly by turboprops, and now they have 15-16 with regional jets mostly 69-76 seats. Today San Diego airport has roughly 15% of it's flights with regional jets. The number of operations on the runway in 2016 is close to the number in 2003 despite a 33% increase in the number of passengers.

Las Vegas already has less than 4% of it's flights on regional jets, so they can't do something similar.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by AmericaWestCMH

LAS has hardly any cargo traffic. There are fewer than 10 flights a day and the cargo ramp is woefully underutilized. It's just not necessary when you can get from the Port of LA to Vegas in 5 hours by truck.


Passenger flights monopolize the runways? Isn't that what an airport is for? You could free up a ton of capacity at McCarran by jacking up fees for general aviation and forcing some bizjet traffic to Henderson and North Vegas.

Agreed. I am talking about what can be, not what is now. Plenty of goods coming in to the US from China. IMHO Henderson and NLV are not "real" airports. They can handle light aircraft and small private or commuter jets but I don't think they have the runway or capacity for the larger ones. I just ran by NLV the other day and it's really very small and undeveloped.

[OmegaSupreme]

So let's say Ivanpah Airport becomes a reality. What happens to McCarran?

I know of some cities elsewhere in the world where a 2nd airport is built and the original one still remains the main airport. In most instances, the 2nd airport is home to more of the budget airlines.