$15 minimum wage in KCMO? Are you serious? (Union: sale, apartment)

[Okey Dokie]

And what happens to all those people who are making $12 or so right now? They get raised to $15 and then say, "i'm only making what a burger flipper is making." Endless spiral....

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by marcopolo

Somebody must truly hate the lower-skilled workers to propose such a massive slaughter of jobs. Or they are incredibly, unbelievably ignorant.

Virtually everybody in the country making a "living wage" now started out on the bottom rung of the ladder, at minimum wage. This $15 an hour proposal will saw the bottom three rungs right off the ladder, entrench poverty more deeply, and further cement a permanent underclass in place. Oh, yes, and make liberals feel even smugger and feel even better about their noble selves and their supposed moral superiority.

If the consequences for the poor were not so dire, it would be hilarious.

Other than the liberals comment (extremes on both ends of the political spectrum are completely out of their minds), I agree.

$15 is absurd. The cost of living around here is much higher than KC and even places like DC would take a major economic hit with a min wage that high.

All it's going to do is cause job loss and inflation. That's it.

People need to start at the bottom and work their way out of min wage jobs. That's how it works. I'm sorry if you can't figure out how to do anything other than work the drive through at Wendy's, but those are the bottom jobs. That's where I started, that's where many people start. Climb the ladder or remain in poverty. Raising the min wage does very little in the long run and raising it to $15 an hour in KCMO would be economic suicide for the city. KCMO is not San Francisco or DC where that might fly and it would cause problems even in those cities.

[BioMechanical]

San Francisco passed a gradual raise to $15 per hour in 2018 and it put people right out of business. In a crazy expensive city. It's not like McDonald's is going to double the price of hamburgers.

[mjtinmemphis]

I can see both sides of it.

Since the government "will be" making it harder to collect food stamps and welfare people need jobs that will pay a livable wage.

As far as people in entry level white collar jobs complaining about what someone at Wendy's is making maybe they need to be asking questions about their career path. I have a hard time dealing with people who think they are entitled to more just because. If someone works at Wendy's and makes more money than a customer service specialist so be it. Get a job at Wendy's!

This will possibly kill any type of economic development plan for KC and the STL. Business will just move to Texas or Tennessee.

[rwiksell]

I think it's crazy, too. The only places where it might make sense is in Honolulu, San Francisco, New York, Boston, etc.

If I had no debt and no dependents (and it's not my employer's job to take either of those into account) I would do OK on minimum wage in KC. Especially if I could work and live on good bus lines. (I occasionally commute via bus here in Springfield, MO.) But if the average cost of housing is doubled or tripled in a different city, it doesn't seem fair for the minimum wage to be the same. I don't think Seattle is bad enough to need a $15 minimum wage, but perhaps $12 would be appropriate. But in Honolulu or SF proper, $15 may be necessary.

I believe it's important for us, as a society, to consider the poor. Whether that's hand-outs or hand-ups or whatever, we should at least agree that those of us who have been more fortunate have an obligation. (I don't care how low on the totem pole you started... nobody picks themselves up by their own bootstraps. We all had help.) And when I say we have an obligation, what I definitely DON'T MEAN is that we can just pass a law forcing retail and manufacturing businesses to take care of the problem for us. What a cop-out.

What about the single-mom bank teller earning $15/hr right now with a deadbeat ex, student loan debts, a mother to support and two kids that both need braces? Compare her to the high-school senior who got the job at Burger King because his parents are forcing him to pay for his own gas and insurance on the Beamer they gave him on his 18th birthday? Which one is poor? The single-mom. Which one stands to get a 200% raise? The high-schooler.

We need to be sniffing out those employers who are trying to get away with paying people below the market-value of the jobs they're doing. To some small extent, the concept of the minimum wage helps with this. But nobody can argue that the market-value of EVERY JOB is $15/hr or more. It's artificial. And if the government wants to put artificial values on things, they should back it with their own damn money. They're doing it now with all kinds of other things, why should minimum wage be any different?

[STLCityMike]

"We need to be sniffing out those employers who are trying to get away with paying people below the market-value of the jobs they're doing. To some small extent, the concept of the minimum wage helps with this. But nobody can argue that the market-value of EVERY JOB is $15/hr or more. It's artificial. And if the government wants to put artificial values on things, they should back it with their own damn money. They're doing it now with all kinds of other things, why should minimum wage be any different?"


The government doesn't have money. It comes from us - the tax payers.

[marcopolo]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

.................
We need to be sniffing out those employers who are trying to get away with paying people below the market-value of the jobs they're doing. To some small extent, the concept of the minimum wage helps with this...................

umm, every employed person in the country is presumably working at the best job available to them, all things considered. If there were a better deal available somewhere else, they would be there.

The highest and best wage that any willing employer will offer IS the market value for the job. It is definitional. And that means that we do NOT "need to be sniffing out those employers who are trying to get away with paying people below the market-value." NO employer pays below market value--they would not have anyone show up if they did.

Economics. Learn how it works.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by marcopolo

Economics. Learn how it works.

Bottom line.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by marcopolo

umm, every employed person in the country is presumably working at the best job available to them, all things considered. If there were a better deal available somewhere else, they would be there.

The highest and best wage that any willing employer will offer IS the market value for the job. It is definitional. And that means that we do NOT "need to be sniffing out those employers who are trying to get away with paying people below the market-value." NO employer pays below market value--they would not have anyone show up if they did.

Economics. Learn how it works.

Don't be snide with me. That wasn't even the thrust of my argument, and I think that was pretty obvious. (Although there certainly are people who bend the rules in order to pay as little as possible, either with migrant workers, under-age workers, or avoiding obligations to inform employees of their rights. That's who I'm talking about. But again, it was just a sidebar.)

I'm guess you're opposed to the entire concept of the minimum wage then? Don't pretend like we live in some sort of laissez-faire free-market economy. There is no such thing as a "pure" market value, in regards to prices, wages or anything else.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by STLCityMike

The government doesn't have money. It comes from us - the tax payers.

The government HAS money. It came from us - the tax payers.