Where is Indiana/Indianapolis heading? (Fort Wayne, Evansville: real estate, condo, mortgages)

[indy771]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Fort Wayne is on the small end of mediumisized cities with around 270k people.

Indianapolis is a medium sized city with 850k people. Metro area is 1.8MM.

Indianapolis is 14th largest city in the US and the metro area ranks 33rd.

Indianapolis is actually slightly smaller market than metro Cincy or St. Louis.

Columbus Ohio has slightly smaller city population and slightly larger metro population than Indy.

Nashville has metro population of 1.8MM, basically the same as Indy though city proper is only 644k people.

Besides population numbers and culture, what factors do you consider when determining whether a city is big or small? It seems like only cosmopolitan cities with a metro of over 10M fits the bill. Which I find it hilarious when they are being brought up in discussion in forums like Indianapolis and other similar size cities.

[Toxic Toast]

I've always thought of Indianapolis as mid-sized. Same with Cincy, NOLA, MKE, etc.

I would call Evansville a small metro area. I admit though, outside the confines of these silly threads, I don't really think about it very often.

[IndyCons]

So back to the original question of "Where is Indiana/Indianapolis heading?" as removing personal anecdotes out of it (who am I kidding?! It's the internet! It's all about me!) - I am typing this from my home office, looking out the window where they are constructing 2 homes. Both lots, alone, sold for $325k. The structure (from one of the owners) is going to land around $1.2M when it's all said and done. There is also a condo building going in down the block where the units are starting in the $500k range and have many presold. So in my Indianapolis, things are definitely looking up.

However, the closing of the Double 8 Foods in the urban core is going to do nothing to help the food desert situation. We still have issues with abandoned lots and homes that do nothing to inspire a feeling of safety in urban neighborhoods, and it seems like we are spending our time on issues that aren't necessarily addressing root issues. I'd like for the county/city to explore something like a commuter tax if analysis would show that there are a significant number of folks coming in to work in the city from the donut counties (before I get flamed, I work out of town 4 days a week and still pay Marion Co. tax on my full paycheck. AND still have to pay out of state taxes).

[RJ8089]

Indianapolis is a great city. I can base this off where I lived before....Honolulu, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Nashville, Washington (DC), Portland (OR). It is a medium sized city, which that definition has a large tent.

[Shakeesha]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Fort Wayne is on the small end of medium sized cities with around 270k people.

Indianapolis is a medium sized city with 850k people. Metro area is 1.8MM.

Indianapolis is 14th largest city in the US and the metro area ranks 33rd.

Indianapolis is actually slightly smaller market than metro Cincy or St. Louis.

Columbus Ohio has slightly smaller city population and slightly larger metro population than Indy.

Nashville has metro population of 1.8MM, basically the same as Indy though city proper is only 644k people.

That's accurate. Indianapolis is heading in the right direction, but the rest of Indiana...

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by IndyCons

So back to the original question of "Where is Indiana/Indianapolis heading?" as removing personal anecdotes out of it (who am I kidding?! It's the internet! It's all about me!) - I am typing this from my home office, looking out the window where they are constructing 2 homes. Both lots, alone, sold for $325k. The structure (from one of the owners) is going to land around $1.2M when it's all said and done. There is also a condo building going in down the block where the units are starting in the $500k range and have many presold. So in my Indianapolis, things are definitely looking up.

However, the closing of the Double 8 Foods in the urban core is going to do nothing to help the food desert situation. We still have issues with abandoned lots and homes that do nothing to inspire a feeling of safety in urban neighborhoods, and it seems like we are spending our time on issues that aren't necessarily addressing root issues. I'd like for the county/city to explore something like a commuter tax if analysis would show that there are a significant number of folks coming in to work in the city from the donut counties (before I get flamed, I work out of town 4 days a week and still pay Marion Co. tax on my full paycheck. AND still have to pay out of state taxes).

Every city will have the millionaire area, and to me, if people are spending $325K on the lot alone, that has to be a millionaire area. Unless people are just making decent money, and choosing to pay on interest only mortgages just to live the high life for 30 years, spending $1.2M on real estate is maybe doable by 1% of Indy residents.

As far as a commuter tax, I have no problems with it so long as it works both ways and every single county in the state gets to participate. I don't believe that it is Indy commuters are causing the issue though. It seems the bulk of the problems with Marion Co./Indy finances have to do with pay-to-play political stuff where numerous companies are given huge tax breaks, or outright tax giveaways. The Broad Ripple parking garage is a good example. The ridiculous Indy 11 stadium funding request. Numerous tax breaks to all sorts of developments like hotels and what not. The tax giveaways to pro-sports teams. Additionally, most commuters I work with take the interstate to work and only use a couple of miles of city streets. Any non-injury crashes are handled by the state police, not IMPD. Yes, fire/EMS does respond for injuries, but it one is transported, they get a nice bill for their ride, so it isn't like they aren't paying. Additionally, the city needs a huge police force because of the criminal actions of a small % of the residents. I rarely hear a commuter heading down to their job decides one day to rob a Starbucks or downtown bank. I rarely hear of domestic batteries happening between commuters on their way to work, at work, or driving home (and again, if such stuff does happen, good chance it is on the interstate and thus ISP deals with it).

I would also point out that I have seen numerous out-of-county folks stop at convenience stores and spend lots of money. Some people do this daily. For those that eat out, they are paying a higher % of Ir$ay/$imon/¢onvention ¢enter taxes if making their purchases inside Marion County.

And food deserts, I don't get that really. There is a Kroger on the near SE side of town (Twin Aire), there is a Kroger on near north side of town (E. 16h St.), and one in Haughville (W. Mich. St.). There are two Marsh stores downtown. Do these places not sell fruit and vegetables? Is the complaint more that people should have a supermarket within walking distance? Also, it is hard to complain about food deserts when certain special interest groups protest: Developer shelves plan to buy city land, build Meijer

[IndyCons]

Originally Posted by indy_317

Every city will have the millionaire area, and to me, if people are spending $325K on the lot alone, that has to be a millionaire area. Unless people are just making decent money, and choosing to pay on interest only mortgages just to live the high life for 30 years, spending $1.2M on real estate is maybe doable by 1% of Indy residents.

As far as a commuter tax, I have no problems with it so long as it works both ways and every single county in the state gets to participate. I don't believe that it is Indy commuters are causing the issue though. It seems the bulk of the problems with Marion Co./Indy finances have to do with pay-to-play political stuff where numerous companies are given huge tax breaks, or outright tax giveaways. The Broad Ripple parking garage is a good example. The ridiculous Indy 11 stadium funding request. Numerous tax breaks to all sorts of developments like hotels and what not. The tax giveaways to pro-sports teams. Additionally, most commuters I work with take the interstate to work and only use a couple of miles of city streets. Any non-injury crashes are handled by the state police, not IMPD. Yes, fire/EMS does respond for injuries, but it one is transported, they get a nice bill for their ride, so it isn't like they aren't paying. Additionally, the city needs a huge police force because of the criminal actions of a small % of the residents. I rarely hear a commuter heading down to their job decides one day to rob a Starbucks or downtown bank. I rarely hear of domestic batteries happening between commuters on their way to work, at work, or driving home (and again, if such stuff does happen, good chance it is on the interstate and thus ISP deals with it).

I would also point out that I have seen numerous out-of-county folks stop at convenience stores and spend lots of money. Some people do this daily. For those that eat out, they are paying a higher % of Ir$ay/$imon/¢onvention ¢enter taxes if making their purchases inside Marion County.

And food deserts, I don't get that really. There is a Kroger on the near SE side of town (Twin Aire), there is a Kroger on near north side of town (E. 16h St.), and one in Haughville (W. Mich. St.). There are two Marsh stores downtown. Do these places not sell fruit and vegetables? Is the complaint more that people should have a supermarket within walking distance? Also, it is hard to complain about food deserts when certain special interest groups protest: Developer shelves plan to buy city land, build Meijer

I almost mentioned the last link in my post because it's a classic case of selective gentrification - residents of Mass Ave. would likely sh*t a brick if the Coke building is sold to become an urban Target, because we want to save the historic building, yet we'll still complain that there's no big box store downtown. When we made the choice to buy a second home here, that was one thing we looked at, but honestly? With Amazon Prime and other internet retailers, I've set foot in the Glendale Target twice in 5 years. Plan a little bit and you'll eliminate the weekly trips.

Thanks for pointing out the ancillary non-tax money that comes into Marion Co - it would be interesting to see how much of that cash that comes into a (likely) corporate convenience store stays in the county. Though in general, I have nothing to complain about when it comes to the actual amount of taxes I pay in this state compared to others. How they're used (especially your comments regarding pay to play) is another story!

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by IndyCons

residents of Mass Ave. would likely sh*t a brick if the Coke building is sold to become an urban Target, because we want to save the historic building, yet we'll still complain that there's no big box store downtown.

The point is not to fight all potential development, the point is to fight for the proper development. Sure, we could bulldoze a bunch of lots somewhere in Center Township for an urban Target. But, why not hold out for an urban approrpriate one? We know Target can do that, they've done so in other cities. What is wrong with Indianapolis asking for better, more appropriate, development in the urban core? If I wanted a shiny new Target plopped down in my neighborhood with no regard for any historic structures or urban planning, I would live in Avon.

[bilgewater]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

The point is not to fight all potential development, the point is to fight for the proper development. Sure, we could bulldoze a bunch of lots somewhere in Center Township for an urban Target. But, why not hold out for an urban appropriate one? We know Target can do that, they've done so in other cities. What is wrong with Indianapolis asking for better, more appropriate, development in the urban core? If I wanted a shiny new Target plopped down in my neighborhood with no regard for any historic structures or urban planning, I would live in Avon.

Well said, Mr Toast, though I know nothing about Avon.

Also, IIRC there was a Target up on Keystone Avenue (40s-50s St?) that closed this winter. And there IS a big enclosed mall downtown already, after all. Probably plenty of space there for something new.

[UsernameAlreadyTaken]

Originally Posted by bilgewater

Also, IIRC there was a Target up on Keystone Avenue (40s-50s St?) that closed this winter.

Indy Glendale Target

Target at Glendale is still open, from what I can tell. It's at 6101 N. Keystone.