Seeking Family Friendly, Intelectual and Politically Moderate community/neighborhood in Carmel/Zionsville/Fishers (Indianapolis: sales, homes)

[californiahub]

Hello, we are native Midwesterners looking to move back to the area after 15 years in California. California has turned us more outdoorsy and slightly more poltically to the center, but we are still very family centric (girls in K and 4th), down to earth, like basketball-tennis-football, music, cultural events and are highly educated in general. Wife is Catholic and I'm Presbyterian, but moderately practice our faiths. My new job is in Carmel, which looks like a great place other than the absolutely ridiculous 4,500 students in the public high school. Zionsville looks very intriguing with its small town village feel, yet modern housing - though I wonder if we may be out of our element if we get far out to the fringes of the Indy suburbs. Perhaps it's just a price point thing? I could spend up to $450/500K, but don't want more than 3,800SF.

I realize this is a tough question, but thought I would throw it out anyway. Shoot from the hip and thanks!

[Jimmy from nowhere.]

Well lets start you off by noting Indy has the most affordable housing market in America. Your average home runs around 100k and they are decent. Bigger homes run around 200-300k. IF you want a comparison of Tax rates i happen to know them off the top of my head. Indiana's Tax rates are 3.4% flat rate income tax for everyone. 7% sales which the only difference in Marion County/Indy is 8% for Resturants only. 1% capped property taxes across the state which happens to be the lowest in the nation. Our state is very business friendly Heck ranking 1st in the midwest and 6th in the nation for business climate says it all . Also about the 4500 kids in Carmels schools. I should note that school system is famous across the state for the best testing scores and graduating rates. like 95%+ of the students pass the Istep Standardized test and heaven knows how many of those kids graduate lol. Point being even though the school is big its a very well maintained and disciplined School system with great kids.

[domergurl]

We opted for the Hamilton SE school system when we moved to the Indianapolis area (we've since moved). Yes, Carmel is a great school system academically, but they will never split that HS apart because of SPORTS. If your kids want to play on any of the school sports team, they will need to be really really good.

The 2 high schools in Fishers aren't small by any means, but they are willing to realize there are more important things than dominating sports in the state. We liked that.

As far as intellectual and moderate? Well?????? Indiana, is conservative and will only roll more that way in the future. Not clear on what you mean regarding the intellectual aspects of Indiana except we have some of the finest colleges and universities in the nation.

[wh15395]

I would say that both Carmel and Zionsville are where you will want to live and I would consider both to be politically moderate. They are both very Republican, but that's only based on the citizens wanting low taxes, not social issues. Also, Zionsville is not really much further out than Carmel. As far as schools go, you can't possibly make a wrong decision, so I would just base it on where you find a better home.

[CentralCarmel]

Originally Posted by domergurl

We opted for the Hamilton SE school system when we moved to the Indianapolis area (we've since moved). Yes, Carmel is a great school system academically, but they will never split that HS apart because of SPORTS. If your kids want to play on any of the school sports team, they will need to be really really good.

The 2 high schools in Fishers aren't small by any means, but they are willing to realize there are more important things than dominating sports in the state. We liked that.

As far as intellectual and moderate? Well?????? Indiana, is conservative and will only roll more that way in the future. Not clear on what you mean regarding the intellectual aspects of Indiana except we have some of the finest colleges and universities in the nation.

See, I don't get this. If Carmel was sacrificing something so they could be better in sports by keeping the single high school, wouldn't that reflect somewhere...anywhere...in their results? The fact of the matter is they don't sacrifice anything by being one large school. Their ISTEP numbers, graduation rates, SAT scores and percentage of students moving on to higher education are higher than nearly every school in the state! If the data reflected what you speak of then I would change my tone in a heartbeat, but at this point what you're saying is nothing more than a personal opinion.

The best part about Carmel having one high school is that it helps foster a strong sense of community. Fishers had that with Hamilton Southeastern but now that they've split into two seperate high school that sense of community has definitely began to erode per folks I know who have children in the schools. The cross-town rivalry has, so far, not been terribly healthy from what I've heard. The Fishers kids are looked at as the townies while the HSE kids are the rich kids. It's like Greenwood-Center Grove all over again!

[CentralCarmel]

To answer the OP, aside from your fear of the size of Carmel HS I would say that Carmel is your best bet. Zionsville is lovely, don't get me wrong, but if you value things like outdoor activities, festivals and so on Carmel has significantly more to offer in that category.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by CentralCarmel

See, I don't get this. If Carmel was sacrificing something so they could be better in sports by keeping the single high school, wouldn't that reflect somewhere...anywhere...in their results?

It is clear every football game, basketball game, etc.. Every team is allowed x number of players. The larger the school, the less of a chance each individual kid has a chance to play a sport. So Carmel can put another trophy in a case, lots of kids lose the ability to be involved in sports. And we wonder why we have an obesity problem with our youth and so many don't care for anything but sitting down and watching TV or playing on the computer.

[CentralCarmel]

Originally Posted by indy_317

It is clear every football game, basketball game, etc.. Every team is allowed x number of players. The larger the school, the less of a chance each individual kid has a chance to play a sport. So Carmel can put another trophy in a case, lots of kids lose the ability to be involved in sports. And we wonder why we have an obesity problem with our youth and so many don't care for anything but sitting down and watching TV or playing on the computer.

Boo hoo. This reeks of the "everyone gets a participation ribbon and trophy" mentality that does nothing more than give a false sense of reality to kids during their formative years. Not everybody gets to do anything they want and gets everything they want in life. Getting cut from or not making a sports team can be one of the most important lessons a kid can receive.

If the kids want to be involved in said sport then they need to work harder or find something else to do. I played basketball in middle school and was pretty darn good, but something unexpected happened between 7th and 8th grade: I stopped growing. I suddenly found myself in a situation where I was too short to play with the big guys. I went to a big school, found a whole bunch of other activities to get invovled in and had a great time. No regrets here at all, but I learned early that we all have our limits in life and how we react to those limitations is what helps us build character.

[domergurl]

Ah, the everyone gets a trophy excuse. Sorry about your vertical dilemma, but that's not the point here. Funny you bring up basketball, considering the horrible scandal that those punks brought on the Carmel program ... who would want their son to play, regardless of height? Blech. Carmel basketball ... classy, especially if you are a minority!

There are plenty of club activities throughout Indianapolis too. But it doesn't compare to being able to put on your school's uniform and represent your school.

As for the lack of community thing in Fishers ... really? Fishers was never really a community ... they lack any cohesive downtown gathering place and the residents don't feel like spending ka-jillions of taxpayer money to create a fake downtown.

That being said. I vote they move to Zionsville. They have an established village area, the school system is the best of the three northern burbs and they desire to keep it on the small side.

[CentralCarmel]

Originally Posted by domergurl

Ah, the everyone gets a trophy excuse. Sorry about your vertical dilemma, but that's not the point here. Funny you bring up basketball, considering the horrible scandal that those punks brought on the Carmel program ... who would want their son to play, regardless of height? Blech. Carmel basketball ... classy, especially if you are a minority!

There are plenty of club activities throughout Indianapolis too. But it doesn't compare to being able to put on your school's uniform and represent your school.

As for the lack of community thing in Fishers ... really? Fishers was never really a community ... they lack any cohesive downtown gathering place and the residents don't feel like spending ka-jillions of taxpayer money to create a fake downtown.

That being said. I vote they move to Zionsville. They have an established village area, the school system is the best of the three northern burbs and they desire to keep it on the small side.

I had that vertical dilemma at a critical time and by the time I did start growing again I was already knee-deep in other activities. I had lots of choices for things to do so it was no big deal. I put on plenty of other uniforms to represent my school over the years, just not the one I had planned on.

And the point about everyone getting a trophy is no excuse, it's an epidemic that desperately needs a cure. One activity I was involved in always made the point that even though there will only be one champion that all participants were "winners in life." BS...there are lots of losers in life, not everyone gets the trophy. Kids need to learn how to deal with adversity.

Not sure what point you're making about the "fake" downtown. Yes, much of what constitutes Central Carmel is new but it has become an important gathering place for community activities, festivals and so on. Nothing fake about using a place to establish a strong sense of community.

And your point about the sense of community in Fishers is a good one, except you leave out one important thing. Before the split, HSE WAS the community in Fishers, much like Center Grove is the defacto community for unincorporated White River Township, since there is no "there" there. Now that is gone in Fishers and that's too bad.

I question Zionsville resident's commitment to their schools as well. They recently voted down a referendum to make up for the cuts in state school funding and are in the process of evaluating teachers for layoffs. Carmel Clay Schools got their referendum and most of my fellow taxpayers were happy to pay a bit more to support our schools. But then again are taxes are dirt cheap to begin with so a little extra doesn't hurt.

I sense in your posts a bitterness towards Carmel that I don't quite understand.