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View Poll Results: Who are you going to vote for?
Richard Mourdock (R) 9 37.50%
Joe Donnelly (D) 13 54.17%
Andrew Horning (L) 0 0%
Not Voting/Scratching/Undecided 2 8.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,545,061 times
Reputation: 4126

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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
Funny, I've actually talked about moving, to Canada of all places due to Obama winning. I figure if I have to live in a big-government, socialist country, may as well do it in a place where the number of welfare poor is minimal and crime is lower. Lower welfare costs = less taxation. Big government stuff here in the US is going to just be tax hell considering the number of 100% consumers/0% producers (well, they produce off-spring that need to be housed, feed, schooled, and given medical care). Their crime rate is also lower, which will be nice when law-abiding citizens are here in the US are banned from owning self-defense firearms.
Interesting, because in several previous posts you've at least implied that big government leads to dependent behavior, which in turn leads to antisocial/criminal behavior. So, if Canada is, as you say, socialist -- more socialist than the U.S. -- how could it possibly have a lower crime rate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
Pence and Co., and every other state, should ignore the healthcare law.
If memory serves, the SCOTUS ruling did state that states cannot be forced to expand Medicaid rolls. So, this part of the ACA will be effectively optional, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Pence and Co. opt out of it. I also expect the state to opt-out of creating its own insurance exchange in favor of letting the federal government set up one. As for the rest of the ACA, as I understand it, premium subsidies will come from federal tax dollars, so there's no real impact on Indiana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
No different than liberals/progressive who support things like equal rights...
Damn commie bastards. Equal rights suck.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,681 posts, read 9,065,361 times
Reputation: 2378
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
No different than liberals/progressive who support things like equal rights..
You are right... Damn equal rights!!!
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,764 posts, read 39,753,878 times
Reputation: 8253
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
I do expect that initiative to make the ballot. It will be interesting to see which forces line up in opposition. Will big corps like Eli Lilly throw some money behind an effort to defeat it?
Lilly will make Pence not pursue that legislation. There are other corporations in Indiana that will do the same thing.

I gulp when I say this ... Pence needs to take a page out of the Daniels playbook and cool it on the social crap.

Daniels is right to get the heck out of politics. His GOP is nuts right now and alas, they will not accept the fact that the tea party and their anti-woman wackiness got thumped. Have fun with him Purdue!
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,712 posts, read 3,081,895 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
Interesting, because in several previous posts you've at least implied that big government leads to dependent behavior, which in turn leads to antisocial/criminal behavior. So, if Canada is, as you say, socialist -- more socialist than the U.S. -- how could it possibly have a lower crime rate?
Some humans will never stop working, trying to achieve. Others will take the path of least resistance, and if government will pay the bills, that is the path they will take. We like to think of things happening immediately. We live in an immediate world with technology, but these things take time. There is a culture that develops depending upon the underlying beliefs of the population. As time goes on, these culture beliefs change, and that affects morals and values. Gun homicides spiked in Toronto a few years ago, but has since went down along with overall homicides. If a population has a culture of working, not committing crime just because one is poor, etc., I wouldn't expect the population to turn to championing, supporting dependent behavior. Just because a person is poor doesn't mean they are criminals. However, in the US, there is a relationship between household income and crime rates. The only thing I see more socialist about Canada than the US is the healthcare system. Is lack of healthcare why teens and young adults sell drugs in US cities? If we provided a national healthcare system like that of Canada, would Chicago finally have the homicide rate of Toronto?

To me, it is all culture and moral beliefs. I believe that people in Canada, currently, view big government and handouts different than people in the US. Canada can easily change, but that change won't come overnight unless there is some sort of massive shift in how things are done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
As for the rest of the ACA, as I understand it, premium subsidies will come from federal tax dollars, so there's no real impact on Indiana.
Well, Cook Medical has already stated they are shelving expansion plans. Even if there were no plans to expand anything within our borders, surely a higher revenue stream for a company based in Indiana would have had some impact on Indiana?

Cook Medical shelves Midwest expansion plans | 2012-07-27 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
Damn commie bastards. Equal rights suck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Greensboro Resident View Post
You are right... Damn equal rights!!!
Rights can never be "equal." You can't tell a vile racist that they have to serve a minority at their business without violating the rights of the racist owner. With "equal rights," there are winners and there are losers. Politics dictates who are the winners and who are the losers. In terms of public accommodation, property/business owners are the losers. In terms of private property like a home, personal swimming pool, personal vehicle, the property owners are the winners as they are not forced to share.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,545,061 times
Reputation: 4126
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
The only thing I see more socialist about Canada than the US is the healthcare system. Is lack of healthcare why teens and young adults sell drugs in US cities? If we provided a national healthcare system like that of Canada, would Chicago finally have the homicide rate of Toronto?
How about one year paid family leave? That's Canadian law.

One minor detail - Canada doesn't have a national health care system.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,545,061 times
Reputation: 4126
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
Rights can never be "equal." You can't tell a vile racist that they have to serve a minority at their business without violating the rights of the racist owner. With "equal rights," there are winners and there are losers. Politics dictates who are the winners and who are the losers. In terms of public accommodation, property/business owners are the losers.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were making an argument in favor of Jim Crow.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:45 AM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,764 posts, read 39,753,878 times
Reputation: 8253
no kidding ... wow. Equal rights is an ideal and doesn't only pertain to race. Would said business owner have a right to not serve women? How about people over the age of 65?

Heck, tax rates aren't even equal.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,764 posts, read 39,753,878 times
Reputation: 8253
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
How about one year paid family leave? That's Canadian law.

One minor detail - Canada doesn't have a national health care system.
meh ... they sort of do. Moreso than our system. Provincial medicare.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:58 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,545,061 times
Reputation: 4126
Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
meh ... they sort of do. Moreso than our system. Provincial medicare.
That is my point, though - Each province has its own system, and there are variances. And I hesitate to call it socialist because, unlike Britain's NHS, medical providers are private.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Mt. Pleasant SC
189 posts, read 178,923 times
Reputation: 735
The truth is we ARE our brothers keeper. We live in a society...what happens to the least fortunate DOES effect the most fortunate. One political party in particular seems to not want to accept that somethings (health, happiness etc) are more inportant than money.

To me, it is unbelievable that the only "superpower" in the world cannot provide universal healthcare to its citizens. In my opinion, access to healthcare, education, and clean water and food are basic human rights. It's amazing to me that some don't agree. I guess in their opinion...if you can't afford a doctor or meds you should just die????

-G
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