"Smoky" experience in indiana.

[Jakehorror]

Today (for the most part) we can see how pathetic it was to discriminate on the basis of race, that's why theres no longer signs up for blacks, we call it progress. Maybe it will take another 50 years to see how equally pathetic it was to allow people to smoke in restaurants. Progress is slow, but I think the smoking ban in public establishments is a good thing. Sorry about your friend. That could have went several ways though. If his wife didn't stick by his side through the rough times then the marriage was doomed before the smoking ban. Paying support is standard, if you can't feed em' don't breed em' I once heard some redneck say, but really it's true. Why did he not move his business a county over where they allow smoking? I'm sorry but hundreds of establishments in St. Joe County (a county who has adopted to smoking ban) are still thriving. I think it's a little radical to entirely blame this mans poor misfortune on the smoking ban.

[belovenow]

Everyone wants to make smoking vs non-smoking a freedom issue. I don't think it is. That's just smoke & mirrors.

Nicotine is a drug, and a very addictive one. Addiction aside, people around cigarette smoke suffer the health effects of those who smoke. People by in large have a difficult time stopping themselves when they are addicted to smoking... I saw it in my grandparents, my parents, and my friends. Smoking for established smokers isn't much of a choice as much as it is an addiction (most smokers I have known have told me they would love to quit at one time or another but they have failed to).

If people fail to make the right choices on their own for their own health without help and they continue to do something which harms others who have made the right choice... then that's where the government or other agency must step in to assist. It's not rocket science folks... someone needs to help in that situation. If no one helps then many become or stay addicted and many people both smokers and non-smokers alike will end up sick or dead.

I've said it many times before... these indoor smoking bans do help... they not only help by reducing the effects of smoking on non-smokers, but they also loosen the grip of the addiction on smokers themselves who now have to go out of their way (not just financially, but also physically) to support their addiction.

If a ban serves to discourage potential new smokers from trying cigarettes, that is awesome. If it serves to convince established smokers that perhaps smoking is too much of an inconvenience, then that is awesome as well. If small business owners fail to thrive because of a ban on smoking, then perhaps they need to change lines of business so they aren't in the business of encouraging people to poison themselves nor those around them with an addictive substance.

In Fort Wayne there are literally a dozen or so wealthy bar owners who claimed the smoking ban (now passed as of July) would put them out of business. The irony is that most of them are still in business and if anything when my wife and I go on a date night now we consider frequenting these establishments whereas in the past we didn't because we didn't want to come out smelling like smoke. So there's actually new customers for these businesses. No one talks about how at least 90% of the adult population doesn't smoke, and of that 90% many like my wife and I cannot stand to be in the vicinity of smoking... I'd argue that this population should be the new target audience of business owners who used to thrive on the business of smokers. They stand a chance of making more money, and that's without a smokescreen :-)

[theycallmeoj]

I'm not arguing the facts. Smoking kills. It's bad and all that crap. We all know it.

BUT, it is legal for sale in the United States so......

What i am arguing here is i believe it is wrong to make it illegal for a business who chooses to allow smoking, have to stop. Even though it is legal to buy ciggarettes and smoke provided you are of age. Ironic???

If you don't like smoking, then show it by not going to an establishment that allows it. You don't go to strip clubs because your disgusted by the nudity do you? No, i don't think so.

People are losing their choices. My comment about the blacks was merely to prove my point concerning a business owners personal choices.

As for 2nd hand smoke killing people; sure it happens. I'm sorry the anal retentive type have to die. Ok, no i'm not....

Next thing you know, people will start saying the common cold should become illegal as well. If you have a cold, you connot have contact with the general public. You should be doomed to a tiny room with only Chicken soup and a good book for weeks! Gimme a break....

Driving you car above the speed limit is illegal, and the speedometer goes far above posted speed limits, and I'm sure 99%+ of us have broken that law a few times. So i ask, how many of you are dead? You have the CHOICE to speed.

Drinking, Drugs, etc etc etc all kill you. Yet, most of these things are legal. Ironic to me.

As for smoking being a drug; sure it is. So is food. Far greater amount of fat people floating around than people with health problems due to smoking. Lets put McDonalds out of business! I never liked them anyhow...

Where i live (sadly enough), in Kokomo, the local Damons restaurant, which is now closed, claimed they had lost so much business once a smoking ban was inacted that they were no longer profitable.

Who says a business has to promote good heath? As long as it's legal and not causing direct, unavoidable damage to you, who cares?

I don't see any tan bed shops getting closed for skin cancer.....
I don't see and strip clubs getting closed for increased rapes, etc etc....
I don't see liquor stores closing shop because some idiot kills himself/others while drunk..
I don't see any of these "Mega Churches" getting shut down for brainwashing....let alone the tax evasion they all thrive upon as Non Profit groups.

Perhaps some anal retentive type can show me the way.

As for communsim, when you collect a bunch of Yahoo's who ban together to take away another persons choices and freedoms, you therefore become a communist.

In closing, I incourage you anal retentive types you keep your mouths shut, since the amount of crap spewing from it should be considered air pollution. Therefore you should be ticketed, shut down by the EPA, decontaminated, and someone should put a Starbucks or a nice playground somewhere up your rear. Hopefully, my kids wont play there, since i hear the mudholes really stink.

Good day!

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by theycallmeoj

As for communsim, when you collect a bunch of Yahoo's who ban together to take away another persons choices and freedoms, you therefore become a communist.

In closing, I incourage you anal retentive types you keep your mouths shut, since the amount of crap spewing from it should be considered air pollution. Therefore you should be ticketed, shut down by the EPA, decontaminated, and someone should put a Starbucks or a nice playground somewhere up your rear. Hopefully, my kids wont play there, since i hear the mudholes really stink.

Good day!

You aren't describing communism at all, you are describing socialism ...

I ENcourage you to simmer down.

[Jakehorror]

Originally Posted by theycallmeoj

I'm not arguing the facts. Smoking kills. It's bad and all that crap. We all know it.

BUT, it is legal for sale in the United States so......

What i am arguing here is i believe it is wrong to make it illegal for a business who chooses to allow smoking, have to stop. Even though it is legal to buy ciggarettes and smoke provided you are of age. Ironic???

If you don't like smoking, then show it by not going to an establishment that allows it. You don't go to strip clubs because your disgusted by the nudity do you? No, i don't think so.

People are losing their choices. My comment about the blacks was merely to prove my point concerning a business owners personal choices.

As for 2nd hand smoke killing people; sure it happens. I'm sorry the anal retentive type have to die. Ok, no i'm not....

Next thing you know, people will start saying the common cold should become illegal as well. If you have a cold, you connot have contact with the general public. You should be doomed to a tiny room with only Chicken soup and a good book for weeks! Gimme a break....

Driving you car above the speed limit is illegal, and the speedometer goes far above posted speed limits, and I'm sure 99%+ of us have broken that law a few times. So i ask, how many of you are dead? You have the CHOICE to speed.

Drinking, Drugs, etc etc etc all kill you. Yet, most of these things are legal. Ironic to me.

As for smoking being a drug; sure it is. So is food. Far greater amount of fat people floating around than people with health problems due to smoking. Lets put McDonalds out of business! I never liked them anyhow...

Where i live (sadly enough), in Kokomo, the local Damons restaurant, which is now closed, claimed they had lost so much business once a smoking ban was inacted that they were no longer profitable.

Who says a business has to promote good heath? As long as it's legal and not causing direct, unavoidable damage to you, who cares?

I don't see any tan bed shops getting closed for skin cancer.....
I don't see and strip clubs getting closed for increased rapes, etc etc....
I don't see liquor stores closing shop because some idiot kills himself/others while drunk..
I don't see any of these "Mega Churches" getting shut down for brainwashing....let alone the tax evasion they all thrive upon as Non Profit groups.

Perhaps some anal retentive type can show me the way.

As for communsim, when you collect a bunch of Yahoo's who ban together to take away another persons choices and freedoms, you therefore become a communist.

In closing, I incourage you anal retentive types you keep your mouths shut, since the amount of crap spewing from it should be considered air pollution. Therefore you should be ticketed, shut down by the EPA, decontaminated, and someone should put a Starbucks or a nice playground somewhere up your rear. Hopefully, my kids wont play there, since i hear the mudholes really stink.

Good day!

After your last paragraph I would say you are the only one here representing the human sphincter. Your opinions are valid, but your showing your true colors when you talk about people "losing their choices." Your mode of thought, once again valid, however they are very outdated and not in the interest of the main population, which doesn't choose to pay high taxes on little packages of death.
My wife is a smoker. She would never dare do it in the house. She don't even do it in restaurants where it's permitted. She hates smoking but she's an addict. I had a friend who went to rehab for crack cocaine and alcohol. He recovered, but he can't stop cigarettes. Does that make the government "right" for keeping cigarettes legal? You act as though since good old Uncle Sam says it's ok that that makes it healthy and/or right.
MBUSZU hit the nail right on the head in every single aspect. Good to see others with enough common sense to see the bigger picture.

[domergurl]

And on that note, I think it's time to close this thread ...