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It's the typical statist view of the world. Nothing can be done right unless it is taxes and regulated by government bureaucrats. You are almost considered a fundamentalist cultist whacko if you home school children in California. I read more in a week now than I did my entire tenure in California public schools.
Yup, pretty much. It is the statists, as you termed them, who think the answer to everything is to turn back the clock to 1779.
Where did I say present public education was acceptable? The concept is valid--the future of the nation rests in an educated populace--but we've fallen WAY BEHIND EVERYONE ON THE PLANET! Revamp I say. Not toss away and "fend for yourself." Yeah, that will really work.
Is it my fault you wasted your public education experience and chose not to read or do homework? How much further would you be "in life" and wealth if you didn't waste your school years?
You want public schools? Pay for your kids to go; they can get their social skills in an undisciplined atmosphere with kids whose behavior is abhorrent being taught God knows what. You need pristine, pretty roads? Pay for them.
But why is it that I should have to pay for things I don't need but you WANT? You're so eager for them and the higher taxes, voluntarily send in a check to the treasury. Do it, today. I challenge you.
My siblings and I grew up dirt poor, but are all relatively successful, involved in church and community, and well-adjusted (whatever that means). We got out and did things we enjoyed, socialized with people who had the same interests, and didn't spend our lives in front of an XBOX or PS3. Before you knock home-schooling, you should double check performance test scores and college GPA studies.
I support consumption/sales taxes, because someone like me who is self-sufficient and doesn't use many of the services will only be paying for the necessities.
But this exposes a problem with modern society, we want this or that without having to pay for it ourselves. Would you ever go to your neighbor's house and demand $1,000 for your kids education? Probably not, but you'd extort it through taxes that always seem to need to go higher and higher and higher?
For what? So, we don't fall behind "the times", get unsocialized, become dumb, or miss out on a pristinely-smooth road trip to McD's?!? Sounds like we're already there my friend.
How many public schools are out there around this country that you WOULDN'T let your kids set foot in? When's the last time that public education actually did it's job and did it well? Let me guess, they need more money.
How many problems have trillions and trillions and trillions of tax dollars ever fixed? How many economic crises has the government not prevented in the last decade alone? How is the war on poverty going for you?
I am middle class, work hard, but enjoy a very comfortable life...not of material comforts but things a public school, government agency, social network, and tax increase can't provide, like close-knit family, fulfillment and contentment arising out of self-sufficiency, helping family and neighbors out...the rewards are endless.
You keep depending on the government for your needs....they are the real Barons and Dukes holding you and everyone else back from fulfilling our real potential, confiscating our personal wealth in return for nothing.
God Bless you. It took almost a decade to break the bonds of brainwashing that California public schools indoctrinated me to believe in. You can't really blame people for not understanding things the way we do. We have steadily replaced FREEDOM with CONVENIENCE in this country. We no longer want productive, fulfilling, and free lives...we want convenience. We would rather have the freedom of convenience and the on demand nature of America today. From where I sit today, that is going to lead us down the road to peril....and not many seem to give a damn.
I regret living a life of pop culture and convenience. I don't want my daughter ruined by California's public school system. I realize I am only one tenth of one percent of native Californians that ever break the bonds of indoctrination and I won't take that chance with my child.
Idaho or bust.
PS All of those taxes you talked about, California has them all and the money never does what it was promised to do. There is a lake called Rawlins Lake near Sacramento and when we visit up there the roads are horrendous then about 2-3 miles from the Lake we see a sign that says "End of County Maintained Road", and immediately after that sign the roads are immaculately maintained and the ride is smooth. That's to be expected though...if only people open their eyes and dig beyond the quote of the moment or headline of the nanosecond. It's frustrating...at least in Idaho I'll know that I will meet more people who believe as I do and I won't feel so desparaged by what governments everywhere are doing. At least when compared to how I feel living in the California Capital. (eye twitches)
Yup, pretty much. It is the statists, as you termed them, who think the answer to everything is to turn back the clock to 1779.
Where did I say present public education was acceptable? The concept is valid--the future of the nation rests in an educated populace--but we've fallen WAY BEHIND EVERYONE ON THE PLANET! Revamp I say. Not toss away and "fend for yourself." Yeah, that will really work.
Is it my fault you wasted your public education experience and chose not to read or do homework? How much further would you be "in life" and wealth if you didn't waste your school years?
You know. Ever since the US Department of Education was created a few decades ago, yes, our education has gone down the toilet. Ever since public schools were adopted, education in this country has gone down the toilet. Yet the greatest thinkers this country has ever seen all existed back in 1779. We wrote the Declaration of Independence. Created the Constitution. Thomas Paine was writing pamphlets on the basic rights of man. 1779 wasn't some cave man era...hell, look at the 1970's. How can you compare the accomplishments of any recent decade with what was accomplished in the years from 1775-1785?
I don't mean to be rude, but I take offense to the cavalier attitude you have to history and the generalizations you are using to justify the statist attitude toward Home Schooling. Thomas Jefferson was home schooled. Benjamin Franklin was. John Adams....ect ect. They all went to universities to be sure, but there were not elementary, middle, or high schools back then. They weren't needed, because it was in the Parents best interest to educate their children. Then the state gets involved in the early 1900's and everything goes to hell.....hmmmmmm
Is it my fault you wasted your public education experience and chose not to read or do homework? How much further would you be "in life" and wealth if you didn't waste your school years?
In short. Yes. It was the state's responsibility to educate me properly because the citizens all chipped in with their hard earned money to pay for it. I like how the government can demand all children attend its schools but then blames parents when children don't succeed. Classic!
By the way, I did just fine...once I realized everything I was taught was bullcrap. I am self educated and proud of it.
Martialcanine,
There is too much cliche and right-wing radio mentality in your latest response for me to respond point-by-point. Luckily, the nation sees that conservative economic principles do not function when they are sub-servant to a socially-conservative agenda. A climate of regulation and sensible NATIONAL policies has returned, once the excesses and greed of American business these past 8 years has been "settled." I do lay the wide bulk of the problems for our nation (and states) at the feet of Globalization and never-ending warmongering. But there is "Change" is the air. We can't afford Globalization and warmongering anymore. A general return to "making government work for everyone" is upon us, atleast for the next 4 years. We'll see what happens from there.
You know. Ever since the US Department of Education was created a few decades ago, yes, our education has gone down the toilet. Ever since public schools were adopted, education in this country has gone down the toilet. Yet the greatest thinkers this country has ever seen all existed back in 1779. We wrote the Declaration of Independence. Created the Constitution. Thomas Paine was writing pamphlets on the basic rights of man. 1779 wasn't some cave man era...hell, look at the 1970's. How can you compare the accomplishments of any recent decade with what was accomplished in the years from 1775-1785?
I don't mean to be rude, but I take offense to the cavalier attitude you have to history and the generalizations you are using to justify the statist attitude toward Home Schooling. Thomas Jefferson was home schooled. Benjamin Franklin was. John Adams....ect ect. They all went to universities to be sure, but there were not elementary, middle, or high schools back then. They weren't needed, because it was in the Parents best interest to educate their children. Then the state gets involved in the early 1900's and everything goes to hell.....hmmmmmm
Your "blame everything on the government" approach, particularly singling out the Dept of Education sounds like a familiar, catchy talking point. Perhaps you should credit Ron Paul for it?
The problem you fail to address is POPULATION EXPLOSION. How many colonials existed back when the Constitution was written versus today?
I absolutely AGREE that PRIMARY WESTERN TEXTS need to be reintroduced to public education. No argument from me.
I do wonder why you first said that you never did any reading while you were in school but it is only now that you "read." Sorry, but that's lame and factually incorrect. There is, of course, assigned reading in pretty much every public school class--trig, algebra, history, civics, English I think there's even a text in autoshop...whether you did any of it or not is not my problem
Should the state outlaw the assigning of homework? Perhaps there would be better statewide/nationwide results if public school funds were not assigned strictly through property taxes since the wealthy communities have more access to money than ghettoes, barrios and trailer parks? Maybe crime and education are somehow connected? Ya think?
Martialcanine,
There is too much cliche and right-wing radio mentality in your latest response for me to respond point-by-point. Luckily, the nation sees that conservative economic principles do not function when they are sub-servant to a socially-conservative agenda. A climate of regulation and sensible NATIONAL policies has returned, once the excesses and greed of American business these past 8 years has been "settled." I do lay the wide bulk of the problems for our nation (and states) at the feet of Globalization and never-ending warmongering. But there is "Change" is the air. We can't afford Globalization and warmongering anymore. A general return to "making government work for everyone" is upon us, atleast for the next 4 years. We'll see what happens from there.
Wow. I mean WOW! Change. Wow. You actually think any politician has the power to change globalization and corporate power? Wow. Blind you are. I prefer not to have the government work for me...I prefer the government to get the hell off my back! Did you know Harry Paulson is a former Goldman Sach's CEO? Is the "Change" you refer to the former Goldman Sach's CEO that Obama has brought aboard to head up the Treasury Department? lol. How naive you are. The next four years are going to be the worst years economically in American history. I am sure you will cast blame on Bush, but in reality the blame is on both parties and not even the almightly Obama will fix anything because he has brought aboard the same people who helped create this mess. Bill Clinton ramped up globalization more than anyone and much of his old staff now work for Obama, so stop with the self righteous bull.
Oh and I don't listen to right wing talk radio because they are a bunch of statist's too. I think for myself and I take anything a politician says with a grain of salt(if that). You sound young, maybe early 20's...in time you will come to realize just how unchanging politics are. Bush led to Clinton led to Bush led to Obama...there was plenty of change from then to now, but only constant within all of those administrations was Goldman Sach's. lol In four years you will realize this, so I will be patient with you.
Your "blame everything on the government" approach, particularly singling out the Dept of Education sounds like a familiar, catchy talking point. Perhaps you should credit Ron Paul for it?
The problem you fail to address is POPULATION EXPLOSION. How many colonials existed back when the Constitution was written versus today?
I absolutely AGREE that PRIMARY WESTERN TEXTS need to be reintroduced to public education. No argument from me.
I do wonder why you first said that you never did any reading while you were in school but it is only now that you "read." Sorry, but that's lame and factually incorrect. There is, of course, assigned reading in pretty much every public school class--trig, algebra, history, civics, English I think there's even a text in autoshop...whether you did any of it or not is not my problem
Should the state outlaw the assigning of homework? Perhaps there would be better statewide/nationwide results if public school funds were not assigned strictly through property taxes since the wealthy communities have more access to money than ghettoes, barrios and trailer parks? Maybe crime and education are somehow connected? Ya think?
Ron Paul was right. He actually represented REAL change, but he wasn't one of the power elite and only a corporate candidate is allowed a chance to win. Goldman Sach's baby! As for population explosions, so your believe that only government can administer education to large populations? lol
I took many classes, but you don't actually learn much from reading about things when you have a picture of Bush senior making the same face as a Baboon and then reading under the caption saying that Humans and Baboons do have similar qualities. Or in history text books, we are taught how the founding fathers ignored slavery and how evil America is for having had slavery. Or how we learned all about the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, but then they don't even bring up the fact that millions of Christians have been slaughtered and are being slaughtered for their faith. So yea, it is very slanted(I kept the textbooks). I made the comment about not reading because even though a physically read those text books, I didn't learn anything. I was indoctrinated.
I now know that the founding fathers ignored slavery because the issue would have torn apart the fledgling nation and the very omission of slavery period is a testament to their belief that it would have to be abolished at some point, otherwise they would have wrote slavery into the Constitution. I didn't learn until later that slavery existed all over the world and only in America was it race based.
As for your belief that poorer communities need public schools, well I go news for you. My family and my wife's family came over at various times in the 1800's and early 1900's and they were dirt poor Irish immigrants. They scrapped and fought their way out of poverty and didn't ask the government for a damned thing. What has happened since government started to "care for the poor" with welfare and such? Those people are captured in a never ending cycle of poverty...crime is rampant because there is no hope. Government REMOVED the hope that people had. Can you not see this?
I am done. This type of political discourse is what got me banned from City-data before. Of course that was in the California thread where tolerance is at a minimum. I don't go to that forum anymore...I am no longer California. I may live here, but the state is dead to me.
Sactown11, well said...everything, well said. I hate to think I could anything to it, but feel compelled.
Jarndyce, I think you have good intentions and want the best for people. I think parents want the best education for their kids. Please don't attempt to educate me about the value of public education or the lack thereof or how we can make government work for us.
I've gone through the system and worked in it. I have advanced university degrees, graduating with honors, from two very well-known universities in the country. I worked in a state legislature and served as an elected member of a public board of education for several years. I worked hard trying to make things better, to stand up for kids who struggled with learning, and to open doors for kids who needed more of a challenge. The system does not work, reinforced in my experience and evidenced around the country, and as a part of the system, I learned that the best way to make government work for ANYONE is to get it out of the way.
People will make things happen when it is left to them and they are given the freedom - nothing more - to do it. I don't think you have much faith in the American people's ability to make it happen, to fend for the helpless. But you see, OUR problem is we don't expect that of ourselves or of OTHERS anymore. It has nothing to do with lack of money, or tax revenue, or opportunity - the government is inventing a trillion dollars to bail "us" out of an economic "crisis" - but having expectations of self, standards of accountability and not entitlement, and sense of personal responsibility to self, family and community.
You admit that public education is not acceptable. What is your solution....we started this discussion on taxes, and that will certainly be part of your solution...but you also called for revamping.
But yet, in your own statement, you recognize that we have fallen behind everyone on the planet, all the while government education spending has increased billions upon billions year upon year and federal regulation of education leaves no hallway, classroom, or janitor's closet in any public school untouched. We have fallen behind UNDER PUBLIC EDUCATION. You are asking that a system that has failed for decades suddenly revamp itself and succeed.
This has nothing to do with Bush or right-wing radio. I disagree with them more than I agree. This has everything to do with where we place our trust, money, power, and faith. I place it in my God, my family, my community, and myself, because I know that is where it will be safe. There it will be held accountable. There it will be put to good use for those around me that need help, and I - NOT some rich person down the street whose bank account I've raped through the government - will be the one empowered and enabled to help them.
You have no concept of what I LOVE to do for other people - and I don't need or want a government dime - for families in need, and for kids working hard to make it. That's fine. I don't need your understanding; it comes from my heart, not my political philosophy. You place your faith in a government, a system that has been getting it wrong most of the 20th century, not because we were stuck in 1779 but because we forgot what 1779 was all about.
I look for hope and change in people, not one man or bureaucrat, but real people, because they have something to lose if they don't get it right, they have something at stake. It is easy to throw other's money at national problems; it is much harder to throw your heart and soul into one person's situation or struggle, but people do it every day.
Time and again in my life it has been a private individual that made all the difference, that changed my life. People made this country, before 1779 and beyond, on their own accord, initiative, and at great risk. I'm a very modern, technologically-advanced person, but we would do well to draw from that era to rebuild the greatness our nation once held.
Idaho, you are a great place to live. I can only dream of moving there permanently. What makes you great is not government or taxes, but your people and spirit. Push hard against the status quo of growing government and shifting tax rates...dig deep to find a new, more innovative way of doing things. That was my initial point and it remains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarndyce
Yup, pretty much. It is the statists, as you termed them, who think the answer to everything is to turn back the clock to 1779.
Where did I say present public education was acceptable? The concept is valid--the future of the nation rests in an educated populace--but we've fallen WAY BEHIND EVERYONE ON THE PLANET! Revamp I say. Not toss away and "fend for yourself." Yeah, that will really work.
Is it my fault you wasted your public education experience and chose not to read or do homework? How much further would you be "in life" and wealth if you didn't waste your school years?
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I am self educated and proud of it.
