UT System cancels big Houston expansion (Dallas, Austin: student loans, home, schools)

[Vicman]

What if UT acquired Texas Southern University?

[Spade]

Originally Posted by SanJac

Jack Lance, normally I am aligned with your posts but not this time.

UT was way out of bounds with what they did, purchasing the land without approval at an inflated price from a UT alum.

Houston will be just fine without UT. We've made it this far without them.

We need to get UH a medical school...now that would be a game changer!

Houston's been doing fine without UT. It could do better than fine with UT. Nothing wrong with competition and it would be better for UH and Houston to have the states flagship university establish a presence in Houston.

[Vicman]

As an FYI there is too much competition if the market is "oversaturated" - In the airline industry they weren't making any money until a round of consolidation. Obviously universities are not businesses and should not be run as such, but the population of undergrad students can only support so many undergrad institutions.

Again, it's best for UT to acquire TSU.

Originally Posted by Spade

Houston's been doing fine without UT. It could do better than fine with UT. Nothing wrong with competition and it would be better for UH and Houston to have the states flagship university establish a presence in Houston.

[Milton Miteybad]

Originally Posted by Vicman

As an FYI there is too much competition if the market is "oversaturated" - In the airline industry they weren't making any money until a round of consolidation. Obviously universities are not businesses and should not be run as such, but the population of undergrad students can only support so many undergrad institutions.

Again, it's best for UT to acquire TSU.

Frankly...I'm having difficulty envisioning any scenario where that might happen.

[DanielWayne]

Originally Posted by Spade

Houston's been doing fine without UT. It could do better than fine with UT. Nothing wrong with competition and it would be better for UH and Houston to have the states flagship university establish a presence in Houston.

This is not like San Antonio where you basically just had UTSA and A&M chose to build a campus nearby. The city of Houston already has a large emerging research institution aspiring to become one of the next state flagships in UH. Then there is UH-D and UHCL and TSU and UT-Tyler has some programs here (Ok UHCL may be a stretch for this argument). Private schools are Rice, HBU, St Thomas, LeTourneau has some programs in Houston. Then we have a LOT of highly specialized research institutions at the medical center. A LOT. I am not looking at a map, but I suspect you could draw a pretty small circle that would wrap around every school I just listed. Chances are high there would be some redundancy and duplication if that former waste site was allowed to be developed. And that is even if it truly became a research institution and not another 4 year campus as McRaven stated wink wink!

And of course there is the gross disproportionate state funding that this newly proposed UT campus would share in that UH would not, but that is another rabbit hole we don't need to go down right now. If you were aware of how the UT system is funded compare to how UH is funded, that completely destroys the definition of competition.

And for the last time... imagine if UH snatched up some land in Round Rock and then announced they were expanding to the Austin area. UT system would raise 7 kinds of he** and that would be the end of that.

[hbcu]

TSU is not being acquired...may one day go into the UT System but never as a UT-Houston

Now I wondered if UT bought land off Beltway 8 and MLK would it be a big issue

In UH's case, they have downtown, katy, cinco ranch, sugar land, clear lake, victoria, etc...

they lost the NW Houston battle but they want to monopolize Houston so you either got to give it up or let someone in

[orozco8104]

And of course there is the gross disproportionate state funding that this newly proposed UT campus would share in that UH would not, but that is another rabbit hole we don't need to go down right now. If you were aware of how the UT system is funded compare to how UH is funded, that completely destroys the definition of competition.

This cannot be emphasized enough. All these UT fanboys like to talk tough about competition, and UH's supposed aversion to it. But the reality is as things currently stand, this would not be a competition at all. This new venture would have access to PUF funds that dwarf anything currently available to UH, thanks to the antiquated policies of the state constitution. Dr. Khator even stated as much during her presentation to the coordinating board. “We’re not afraid of competition — but make sure it’s competition and not takeover.”

So if it's competition you want, open up the PUF funds to UH and others like TT who are deserving. If not, then don't cry about the pushback

[Vicman]

1. I agree that if UT acquires it, it should retain the TSU name - perhaps as UT-TS. Just like Prairie View is Texas A&M Prairie View

2. Several other posters are on mark saying that competition should only be allowed in if the funding playing level is equalized (allow UH to get PUF funds )

Originally Posted by hbcu

TSU is not being acquired...may one day go into the UT System but never as a UT-Houston

Now I wondered if UT bought land off Beltway 8 and MLK would it be a big issue

In UH's case, they have downtown, katy, cinco ranch, sugar land, clear lake, victoria, etc...

they lost the NW Houston battle but they want to monopolize Houston so you either got to give it up or let someone in

I can very easily imagine a scenario where this could happen - say a scandal happens with TSU's administration, and the state asks for another university system to take over.

If you think this would be implausible because TSU is an HCBU: We've seen North Forest, Wilmer-Hutchins, La Marque, and Kendleton school districts (four majority black K-12 school districts, though only Kendleton was truly a historically black school district if we're counting prior to desegregation) dissolve. I can imagine the Higher Education Coordinating Board would allow UT to acquire TSU if a scandal worse than Slade appears.

Originally Posted by Milton Miteybad

Frankly...I'm having difficulty envisioning any scenario where that might happen.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by SanJac

Jack Lance, normally I am aligned with your posts but not this time.

UT was way out of bounds with what they did, purchasing the land without approval at an inflated price from a UT alum.

Houston will be just fine without UT. We've made it this far without them.

We need to get UH a medical school...now that would be a game changer!

No, this is not a existential crisis for Houston and maybe you are right, maybe this expansion would not have been "good" for the U of H, but I don't see how anybody could argue this would not have been better for Greater Houston than what we have now. U of H boosters are putting the theoretical interest of U of H above those of the area as a whole. Lets break these contrasting viewpoints down into nutshell arguments.

Pro UT expansion: This would be great for Greater Houston, and not bad for U of H.

Anti UT expansion : This will be detrimental for the U of H, and not that great for Greater Houston.

See, when you break this down we see that everybody agrees that this would have some positive benefits for Greater Houston and conversely this would also not have been a existential crisis for the U of H.

Originally Posted by orozco8104

And of course there is the gross disproportionate state funding that this newly proposed UT campus would share in that UH would not, but that is another rabbit hole we don't need to go down right now. If you were aware of how the UT system is funded compare to how UH is funded, that completely destroys the definition of competition.

This cannot be emphasized enough. All these UT fanboys like to talk tough about competition, and UH's supposed aversion to it. But the reality is as things currently stand, this would not be a competition at all. This new venture would have access to PUF funds that dwarf anything currently available to UH, thanks to the antiquated policies of the state constitution. Dr. Khator even stated as much during her presentation to the coordinating board. “We’re not afraid of competition — but make sure it’s competition and not takeover.”

So if it's competition you want, open up the PUF funds to UH and others like TT who are deserving. If not, then don't cry about the pushback

Nobody is arguing that UT does not enjoy advantages that the U of H does not. Which is another reason why UT can do things for Greater Houston that U of H, and others, have not been able to do, and probably will not be able to do in the future.

Another aspect that U of H boosters seem to not understand is that intellectual capabilities spur economic and population growth. You seem stuck at looking at Houston as a finite pie that will be sliced more thinly if a academic competitor enters the region, when in fact a broader intellectual and academic base will create growth, that will then feed and enrich all the academic and research institutions in the area.

Until now Houston has enjoyed a booming economic climate based on a commodities based economy, that feed intellectual and academic growth. In the future Houston will need more and more to shift to a more service oriented economy, that is feed by a intellectual base, and not vice versa, as in the past. UT has done this in other parts of the state and can and should participate in Houston's economic future in the same way.

[Milton Miteybad]

Originally Posted by orozco8104

So if it's competition you want, open up the PUF funds to UH and others like TT who are deserving. If not, then don't cry about the pushback

Explain the part in bold, please.